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Thread: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    This seems like a pretty typical political discourse that you see anywhere and everywhere. Government of Party A ascribes any bad news to the previous administration, and any improvement to their own good governance. Opposition Party B ascribes any improvement to anyone or anything but the government of Party A ("what specific policy led to this?" they whine), and they blame that same government for any deterioration in anything and everything in the country, or even the world. 'Nepal earthquake kills thousands - thanks Obama!'

    The tribalism and pettifogging of modern political discourse in the US, Europe and most of the 'developed' world is the reason for the decline in trust for politicians and disenchantment with the political process - well, that and all the other things that are wrong with 'liberal democracy'.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    there's nothing much more of substance I can add.
    Hey, this stuff is very complicated. I don't pretend to have any great level of knowledge about it. But I do know that some on the Right like to make a lot of false claims about Frank and Dodd and the CRA, etc. There's a lot of good information about this topic available in threads on this forum, but it's not exactly easy to access when it's in very long threads.

    >> Boston Globe, U.S. News & World Reports

    Yes, those are good publications, imo.

    >>(BTW, I too have a Beagle!)

    That's a picture of one of my coonhounds when she was a puppy — Susie I, who we lost in 1999, sad to say. But she did live to be seventeen years old. I now have Susie II and her little (step-)sister Mickey (from Michelle), a coonhound/beagle mix. I love all dogs, but hounds are my favourite.

    Here's a short clip of my girls playing. ☺

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    I'm not saying I agree with either Fenten or ludin, but I am saying I'm going past my boundaries of detailed legislative procedural knowledge of the fiasco, except to say the GOP were at the helm & that pretty much seals the deal of their being culpable in my mind - there's nothing much more of substance I can add.

    But I will add that while they were op-ed pages, 'ludin' cited The Boston Globe', which is an excellent source IMO, and also 'U.S. News & World Reports', which is another mainstream source (as far as I'm aware).

    (BTW, I too have a Beagle!)
    I will only add that you can't beat "the horses mouth" for a source so I will direct you to a speech made in June 2002 by President Bush himself. Read it and tell me if it sounds like he is trying to inflate a housing bubble. IMO the idea of a "Minority Housing Initiative" by a Republican is suspect right off the bat, but you be the judge.

    And so, therefore, I've called -- yesterday, I called upon the private sector to help us and help the home buyers. We need more capital in the private markets for first-time, low-income buyers. And I'm proud to report that Fannie Mae has heard the call and, as I understand, it's about $440 billion over a period of time. They've used their influence to create that much capital available for the type of home buyer we're talking about here. It's in their charter; it now needs to be implemented. Freddie Mac is interested in helping. I appreciate both of those agencies providing the underpinnings of good capital.
    HUD Archives: President George W. Bush Speaks to HUD Employees on National Homeownership Month (6/18/02)

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I will only add that you can't beat "the horses mouth" for a source so I will direct you to a speech made in June 2002 by President Bush himself. Read it and tell me if it sounds like he is trying to inflate a housing bubble. IMO the idea of a "Minority Housing Initiative" by a Republican is suspect right off the bat, but you be the judge.
    "And so, therefore, I've called -- yesterday, I called upon the private sector to help us and help the home buyers. We need more capital in the private markets for first-time, low-income buyers. And I'm proud to report that Fannie Mae has heard the call and, as I understand, it's about $440 billion over a period of time. They've used their influence to create that much capital available for the type of home buyer we're talking about here. It's in their charter; it now needs to be implemented. Freddie Mac is interested in helping. I appreciate both of those agencies providing the underpinnings of good capital."
    Your link didn't work, so I can't see the context of your excerpt - but on it's own it does appear damning in Mr. Bush's culpability.

    Thank you for this.
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Your link didn't work, so I can't see the context of your excerpt - but on it's own it does appear damning in Mr. Bush's culpability.

    Thank you for this.
    Strange. The link works fine for me. Try it again. It's a good read. I remember a the time it was very weird to me that Bush would be pushing homes for low income minorities.

    HUD Archives: President George W. Bush Speaks to HUD Employees on National Homeownership Month (6/18/02)

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Your link didn't work
    That's a .cfm file. It may be that you don't have an application on whatever machine yer using that has been selected to open it. It's also available here. If you want, I might be able to help you get it open or else convert it. I'd need to revive some old brain cells.

    Here's our friend Ms. Waters commenting on it: House Republicans Ought to be Embarrassed about their Record on Fannie and Freddie.

    >>it does appear damning in Mr. Bush's culpability.

    I wouldn't blame him a whole lot. He was well-intentioned on this, I figure, and just too trusting of people who didn't at all deserve it.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    Sadly, I again see this as misplaced praise. I went back and forth with Fenton MANY times on the causes of the housing bubble. I got to the point where I now have made the decision, a very regrettable one in my view, that I will no longer read his posts. It's pointless to do so. I figure this really weakens my ability to argue persuasively in these threads, given that others will read them. But I don't think I have a choice. If I tried to respond to that torrent of nonsense, I'd be unable to participate in these discussions.
    Yes, we went back and forth, you offering up opinions and me offering up fact after fact, backed with links, dates, names, etc.

    Eventually I challenged you to rebut my post point by point and like a coward you refused to do so.

    Ill offer up the exact same challenge again in this thread.

    Ill post a detailed breakdown of what exactly led up tp the 2008 Financial Crises dating back to 1992 with links to back it up and you offer up a point by point rebuttal.

    Lets see if you have the integrity and knowledge to back up your rhetoric.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    That's a .cfm file. It may be that you don't have an application on whatever machine yer using that has been selected to open it. It's also available here. If you want, I might be able to help you get it open or else convert it. I'd need to revive some old brain cells.

    Here's our friend Ms. Waters commenting on it: House Republicans Ought to be Embarrassed about their Record on Fannie and Freddie.

    >>it does appear damning in Mr. Bush's culpability.

    I wouldn't blame him a whole lot. He was well-intentioned on this, I figure, and just too trusting of people who didn't at all deserve it.

    Let me quickly rebut this low lifes Maxine Waters Democrat lies.

    2005 GSE Regulatory Senate Bill sb1b190. ( Look it up )

    Passed through Senate Banking committee with NO Democrat votes and a promise to Fillibuster by Chris Dodd, ranking Commitee Democrat member if it ever got down to the floor for a vote.

    This is why you stopped reading my post.

    Because I exposed you as the partisan hack that you are.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Yes, we went back and forth, you offering up opinions and me offering up fact after fact, backed with links, dates, names, etc.
    Quoting people doesn't show the government created a housing bubble. It is ridiculous that i have to even point this out.

    Eventually I challenged you to rebut my post point by point and like a coward you refused to do so.
    Given your history of running and hiding, how on earth can you accuse others?

    Ill post a detailed breakdown of what exactly led up tp the 2008 Financial Crises dating back to 1992 with links to back it up and you offer up a point by point rebuttal.
    This ought to be interesting. Full blown commentary on.... not data... but commentary.

    Lets see if you have the integrity and knowledge to back up your rhetoric.
    It's time to go to school son.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    That's a .cfm file. It may be that you don't have an application on whatever machine yer using that has been selected to open it. It's also available here. If you want, I might be able to help you get it open or else convert it. I'd need to revive some old brain cells.

    Here's our friend Ms. Waters commenting on it: House Republicans Ought to be Embarrassed about their Record on Fannie and Freddie.

    >>it does appear damning in Mr. Bush's culpability.

    I wouldn't blame him a whole lot. He was well-intentioned on this, I figure, and just too trusting of people who didn't at all deserve it.
    I wasn't 'damning' him as a person, but in the context of the larger debate, "Which party was responsible for the economy in 2008" - whatever their intention, I feel the majority party & the White House are where the buck stops. It's their job (as leaders) to lead! (IMHO)

    When their leadership produces good results - I give them credit.

    When their leadership produces poor results (or is lacking, thereby producing poor results) - I hold them to take that responsibility, too.
    Last edited by Chomsky; 05-10-15 at 12:57 PM. Reason: add last two lines
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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