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Thread: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Which was entirely Obama's fault.
    As Obama should have turned it down and disrespected the entire World, as Bush/Cheney routinely did .
    yes he should have turned it down just as al gore should have turned it down. if you don't deserve a reward then the respectable thing to do is to turn it down.
    I wouldn't accept a reward that I did nothing to accomplish.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    yes the senate was split and chris dodd and barney frank sat on two important boards that prevented any kind of banking change from getting through committee.
    Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco - The Boston Globe

    Dodd was in Charge of the Senate banking committee and Frank was in charge of the house finance committee neither one would allow any reform to Freddie or fannie through
    their committee's.

    Democrats Were Wrong on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - US News

    when that minority party refuses to act and keep their head in the sand then yes they are to blame.
    a large part do to the campaign contributions that democrats were getting from Freddie and fannie.

    Chris dodd was the top donor from Freddie an fannie
    barney frank was 16th.

    Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.): “Through nearly a dozen hearings, where frankly we are trying to fix something that wasn’t broke, Mr. Chairman, we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac and in particular at Fannie Mae under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines.”

    Rep. Barney Frank (D., Mass.): “The more people, in my judgment, exaggerate a threat of safety and soundness, the more people conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the Treasury, which I do not see. I think we see entities [Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac] that are fundamentally sound financially and withstand some of the disaster scenarios.”

    Sen. Christopher Dodd (D., Conn.): “I, just briefly will say, Mr. Chairman, obviously, like most of us here, this is one of the great success stories of all time.”

    Sen. Charles Schumer (D., N.Y.): “And my worry is that we’re using the recent safety and soundness concerns, particularly with Freddie, and with a poor regulator, as a straw man to curtail Fannie and Freddie’s mission.”

    Franklin Raines, former head of Fannie Mae: “These assets are so riskless that their capital for holding them should be under 2%.
    LOL yet they were leveraged 40:1.

    the only one kidding here is you and your history revisionism which fails.
    Alright ludin, fair enough.

    You've supplied supporting info & links to your argument, some of which I was not aware - thank you.

    But I still don't see how this absolves the Bush Administration & the GOP controlled government of responsibility. They had complete control of the government for nearly 8 years leading-up to the '08 fiasco, during which they could pass (or veto) any legislation they so chose. They signed-off on this.

    Perhaps a case could be made for Dem complicity (you've done a good job), but the guys in control were in-charge & this is the way they chose to run their government (whether through action, or inaction).

    You're attempting to build a case where the boss abrogates responsibility for signing-off on an employee's bad idea.
    Last edited by Chomsky; 05-09-15 at 01:11 PM. Reason: grammar
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    You've supplied supporting info & links to your argument, some of which I was not aware - thank you.… Perhaps a case could be made for Dem complicity (you've done a good job)
    Yer being too generous, imo. That "supporting evidence" is largely a series of quotes that have no context, collected from right-wing sites like this.

    What are these "two important boards that prevented any kind of banking change from getting through committee"?

    He says "when that minority party refuses to act and keep their head in the sand then yes they are to blame." As you've asked, what about the majority, ya know, the people who control what gets voted on? And who was in the White House while this crisis developed?

    Here's a press release from a member of the Financial Services Committee (yes, their hero, the distinguished Rep from LA, Ms. Waters) in which Mr. Frank reviews the history surrounding this matter.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Alright ludin, fair enough.

    You've supplied supporting info & links to your argument, some of which I was not aware - thank you.

    But I still don't see how this absolves the Bush Administration & the GOP controlled government of responsibility. They had complete control of the government for nearly 8 years leading-up to the '08 fiasco, during which they could pass (or veto) any legislation they so chose. They signed-off on this.

    Perhaps a case could be made for Dem complicity (you've done a good job), but the guys in control were in-charge & this is the way they chose to run their government (whether through action, or inaction).

    You're attempting to build a case where the boss abrogates responsibility for signing-off on an employee's bad idea.
    The 2005 Senate bill sb190 ( GSE Regularory reform ) was passed through the Senate Banking committee on a party vote. So all Democrats on the Committee voted against it and Chris Dodd threatened to Filibuster it if it ever got down to the Senate floor.

    Back when th Dems were the minority party they used the Rulel 22 Fillibuster option repeatedly against the GOP.

    Sb190 was pushed back through the Senate Banking committee in 2007 by the GOP as Sb1100 after they lost the Senate and the Democrats chaired the committee.

    It never got out of committee.

    A year later the GSEs were declared insolvent and the dems finally passed GSE regulation.

    Too little too late.

    17 times the Bush administration and the GOP called for GSE regulatory reform. In 2004 72 House Democrats signed a letter warning Bush not to chose the safety and soundness of the GSEs over their " affordable lending " iniatives.

    I bet they wish they could scrub that letter from the record.

    In 2002 Bush warned of the systemic economic consequences from unregulated GSEs. 6 years before the crash he called it perfectly.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    I'd like to thank those the responded to me in the last several posts.

    We can go around in circles over who's to blame for the '08 meltdown it seems, and there's apparently more than enough FUD & propaganda out there to bolster any argument one cares to make.

    After touching on just a moment's research into Fenton's well written reply, I found rebuttals from Barney Frank & others stating the exact opposite as he wrote (not unexpectedly, and not denigratory to those who believe otherwise).

    And I have no detailed personal knowledge of the intricate procedural details of that time.

    But I will close by saying regardless of the procedures & politics, it's hard to let the majority & Presidential party off the hook - I feel it's the President and majority party's onus to get the job done - that's why they've been put in charge. And this goes for any President, Obama included. It's true the Republicans often stymied him, but ultimately it's his responsibility to get the job of running the country done - whether by compromise, political sway, or procedural force! I actually am happy he resorted to more use of EOs, (even though I disagree with one of them - immigration), and only as long as they remain lawful.

    I voted for him (like my other Presidential votes) to lead and produce results, not complain.
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Fenton's well written reply
    Sadly, I again see this as misplaced praise. I went back and forth with Fenton MANY times on the causes of the housing bubble. I got to the point where I now have made the decision, a very regrettable one in my view, that I will no longer read his posts. It's pointless to do so. I figure this really weakens my ability to argue persuasively in these threads, given that others will read them. But I don't think I have a choice. If I tried to respond to that torrent of nonsense, I'd be unable to participate in these discussions.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    yes he should have turned it down just as al gore should have turned it down. if you don't deserve a reward then the respectable thing to do is to turn it down.
    I wouldn't accept a reward that I did nothing to accomplish.
    Oh, stop it. You know how many Nobel Peace Prize winners have declined the award? One. Ever. Le Duc Tho, in 1973, because he couldn't in good conscience share the award with Henry freakin' Kissinger (talk about your undeserving winners!).

    If Obama had declined it, you guys would have ranted about how disrespectful he was being.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'd love to. Perhaps you could list some of the economy boosting legislative and/or regulatory initiatives President Obama has pushed for and championed that show how good he's been for the economy so I could concede your point. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.
    I can think of a few that some might argue hurt the economy in the short term, but I think many would agree helped create a foundation that helps workers and people out in the long run namely certain tax hikes, financial reform, and Obamacare.

    One thing in particular helped me and several Americans out and that was the auto industry bailout. The place I work can't keep up with orders. It makes transmission and coil springs along with stabilizer bars. This place does not shut down at all anymore. It just goes 24/7 365 holidays or not and went from 3000 employees before the recession to 5000 employees (Just in the Florence, KY area) all of which make a significant amount more than they did before the recession.

    Also, Obama kept austerity from happening and proved a good case for it by pointing to the bad stuff that was happening because of it in a lot of European countries. He also has done a lot to get new energy and technology spending. Beyond that, he screwed up a little with certain things I think like the housing market is still iffy, I know people buying houses but I wouldn't buy one honestly. I think the rising economies in areas that took advantage of the recessions namely China and India giving them a middle class and demand for American products or at least American components also gave companies more incentive to just make products in USA. A lot of our electronics for example the innards and glass on tablets and phones are made right here in America, and created tens of thousands of jobs in states such as Kentucky, New York, Texas, and California. Still a lot of work to do, but things look a hell of a lot better than they did 8 years ago.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    Sadly, I again see this as misplaced praise. I went back and forth with Fenton MANY times on the causes of the housing bubble. I got to the point where I now have made the decision, a very regrettable one in my view, that I will no longer read his posts. It's pointless to do so. I figure this really weakens my ability to argue persuasively in these threads, given that others will read them. But I don't think I have a choice. If I tried to respond to that torrent of nonsense, I'd be unable to participate in these discussions.
    I'm not saying I agree with either Fenten or ludin, but I am saying I'm going past my boundaries of detailed legislative procedural knowledge of the fiasco, except to say the GOP were at the helm & that pretty much seals the deal of their being culpable in my mind - there's nothing much more of substance I can add.

    But I will add that while they were op-ed pages, 'ludin' cited The Boston Globe', which is an excellent source IMO, and also 'U.S. News & World Reports', which is another mainstream source (as far as I'm aware).

    (BTW, I too have a Beagle!)
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    re: U.S. Unemployment Falls to Lowest Level Since May 2008[W:489, 497]

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    I can think of a few that some might argue hurt the economy in the short term, but I think many would agree helped create a foundation that helps workers and people out in the long run namely certain tax hikes, financial reform, and Obamacare.

    One thing in particular helped me and several Americans out and that was the auto industry bailout. The place I work can't keep up with orders. It makes transmission and coil springs along with stabilizer bars. This place does not shut down at all anymore. It just goes 24/7 365 holidays or not and went from 3000 employees before the recession to 5000 employees (Just in the Florence, KY area) all of which make a significant amount more than they did before the recession.

    Also, Obama kept austerity from happening and proved a good case for it by pointing to the bad stuff that was happening because of it in a lot of European countries. He also has done a lot to get new energy and technology spending. Beyond that, he screwed up a little with certain things I think like the housing market is still iffy, I know people buying houses but I wouldn't buy one honestly. I think the rising economies in areas that took advantage of the recessions namely China and India giving them a middle class and demand for American products or at least American components also gave companies more incentive to just make products in USA. A lot of our electronics for example the innards and glass on tablets and phones are made right here in America, and created tens of thousands of jobs in states such as Kentucky, New York, Texas, and California. Still a lot of work to do, but things look a hell of a lot better than they did 8 years ago.
    Thanks for your response. I may not agree with all or most of your views on this, but I do respect that at least you have an educated view and rationale for your support for President Obama and not just some offhanded "Obama is great" nonsense. I'm glad to hear about people prospering in today's economy.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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