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Thread: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

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    Re: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I already said this: the need to be arrested, tried, and jailed if they are found to have been negligent or complicit in anything having to do with this. Just like they are everywhere else in the developed world -- which the Catholic Church apparently doesn't consider itself part of.
    You're aware that a significant number of priests and other clergy actually have been jailed over these sex scandals, right?

    Even in cases where it cannot be definitely proven that any such abuse has taken place, the Church has still wound up shelling out millions in out of court settlements. This actually drove several parishes into bankruptcy.

    It's also worth noting that many of the priests being branded as "pedophiles" here were actually simply homosexuals who went after (often sexually confused) men who happened to be younger than 18. Given how understanding of both genuine pedophilia and homosexuality were in their infancy at the time most of these events took place, it was sometimes viewed as being sufficient to simply transfer a priest to a new area, and have them "pray the sin away" in an effort to reform and rehabilitate themselves.

    Granted, that was clearly the wrong call. However, that being said, you're ultimately blowing the problem out of proportion.

    The Church never had any more of an issue with sexual abuse than any other institution, either religious or secular. The abuse rate was actually lower than that found in the general population even at its worst. It's response to the abuse it did find also wasn't any different than what most other organizations at the time did.

    Society as a whole was somewhat messed up on this particular issue. The Church simply happens to be an easier target to go after than most.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 05-07-15 at 06:50 PM.

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    Re: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    How do you think the church should deal with pedophilia?
    The general answer would be to condemn it, however I assume you're referring specifically to clerical pedophilia, so I'll answer with that interpretation:

    There are two ways to answer this, how it would work if the state were also Catholic, and how it should handle it now. I'll answer both.

    For if the state were cooperating with the Church:

    The Church would investigate denunciations of clerical pedophilia, and if there was sufficient evidence, it would institute a canonical trial, and convict and defrock the priest (this is where a cleric is reduced to the canonical status of a layman), at which point he would be handed over to the state for secular punishment.

    As things are now:

    I think the best thing would be to investigate and defrock as above, and advise the person denouncing the priest of his or her right to report the matter to the secular authorities as well. Although the current system of reporting the denunciation to the secular authorities directly also is fine.

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    Re: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    There is no logical way in which protecting pedophile enablers can be explained logically.

    Ah, so you think Catholics should be the only people who don't have to obey civilized ethics because... voodoo? Why does no one else's voodoo count but yours? Why are other people's voodoo beliefs harmful, and yours aren't?

    There's nowhere left to go with this conversation. You think people can logically protect pedophiles. That is a conversation ender.
    Now you're regressing into illogicality again, with strawmen and insults. Go back to where you almost admitted you wanted the Church persecuted, and go from there.

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    Re: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    There is nothing "special" going on here other than the public nature of the gesture itself.

    Any sinner can be granted forgiveness at any time, just so long as they make the effort to seek it out. The Pope is simply reminding us all of that fact.
    Provided it is a holy year, and that a specially designated person of the church administers the forgiveness.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Provided it is a holy year, and that a specially designated person of the church administers the forgiveness.
    Sins can be forgiven during any year.

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    Re: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    There's nowhere left to go with this conversation. You think people can logically protect pedophiles. That is a conversation ender.
    It's worth noting that you think you can logically defend violent killers.

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    Re: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    It's worth noting that you think you can logically defend violent killers.
    You really need to invest in a dictionary, Jay.

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    Re: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    You really need to invest in a dictionary, Jay.
    Hrm. Perhaps a thesaurus so I can say additional accurate things, but a dictionary? Nah, I'm good.

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    Re: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Offering forgiveness to people that have had abortions is a subtle attempt to change the tone.
    This isn't exactly new. Project Rachel – HopeAfterAbortion.org

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    Re: Pope Francis will send ‘missionaries of mercy’ to absolve women of abortion ‘sin’

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    You're aware that a significant number of priests and other clergy actually have been jailed over these sex scandals, right?
    Yes they have but it's been found time and time again that the church knew about the pedophilia long beforehand and moved priests around and sheltered them to keep them from being caught instead of immediately turning them and all relevant evidence to the authorities without having to be asked. Or fought. Or sued. This is a consistent problem with not only the Catholic Church but other Christian churches as well.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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