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Thread: Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

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    Re: Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    If you were a candidate's adviser, the candidate had an enormous lead in the polls, recent data also showed strong enthusiasm among his/her Party, and putting him/her into a forum where the perceived benefits of participation were marginal relative to the risks involved, would you advise that candidate to put his/her standing at risk? Most advisers would suggest that the candidate focus on areas that have the highest potential benefit-to-cost outcomes unless there were some long-term gain from preempting a risk. That's why candidates who have strong polling support typically are reluctant to agree to too many debates. Clinton is no exception.

    It will be up to Clinton's opponents to build a sufficient case that makes it imperative that she appear in such forums. In other words, they will need to shift the calculus so that the costs of her not engaging in such forums substantially exceed the potential benefits of her engaging in them. At present, that's not the situation.
    Strategy is one thing but in this case it's more accurate to say it's abject fear of being shown to be a weak corrupt candidate.
    Or to put it another way ... she's got nothing to gain and everything to lose by coming out of hiding.
    There's going to be a half dozen DNC debates so she'd better start working on her presentation.
    Better never than late.

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    Re: Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    Strategy is one thing but in this case it's more accurate to say it's abject fear of being shown to be a weak corrupt candidate.
    Current polling shows that she's anything but weak right now. Additional polling data and forthcoming fundraising reports will provide additional insight. It's risky for any candidate to underestimate his/her opposition. Assuming that Secretary Clinton, who may or may not ultimately win, will be a "pushover" is a dangerous assumption at this stage of the race given her polling numbers and campaign organization.

    Or to put it another way ... she's got nothing to gain and everything to lose by coming out of hiding.
    If this assumption is accurate, then it would be irrational for her to take a course that could only be self-destructive.

    There's going to be a half dozen DNC debates so she'd better start working on her presentation.
    I'm sure she, like other candidates, will try to prepare for a range of questions and responses for her opponents. But unless her opponents make it necessary for her to dramatically expand upon her stated and restated responses and/or devote much greater attention to any given issue, she won't do so unless she believes other factors make it necessary. Right now, it appears that her strategy is about avoiding mistakes that could benefit her opponents and leaving the task of catching her completely to her opponents. Things could change in the heat of battle, but that's how they appear at the present time.

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    Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I really do not understand how anyone could even think of voting for Hillary considering the emails, and the money scandals. Yeah, all politicians are crooks. But she's an open crook in a house that is made of doors and no windows in the window frames.
    Unless the money is somehow determined to be illegal, just about the only thing that will stick is the email issue. That can't just be isolated to the legal requirements that were only put into place two years ago. With the server problem and the deletion of emails, it kind of transcends either the traditional political ignorance and technology and the idea that you could only see it as a problem with hindsight. Digital record keeping ethics have been much more developed than a simple regulatory improvement.

    Now, simply put, unless they find something dramatic, Clinton is so built up that nothing could pull her down until we start the general election process when a lot more than individual political candidates matter. Someone that is a relative newcomer like a Christie or someone behind the scenes without much recognition will be much more influenced by individual scandals.
    "We all of us know down here that politics is a tough game. And I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually."-Daniel Patrick Moynihan, December 5, 1963

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    Re: Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    She hasn't even gone on any one-on-ones (even friendly ones) that candidates usually do.
    Very weak candidate.
    Do not be deceived by appearances.

    She is a very strong candidate who happens to be enjoying the privilege of being able to run as though she has it won. By deliberately [at this stage] presuming the win, by a regal approach above the usual fray, by the visuals alone she sets herself apart from the riff raff.

    In the US, what is said is no longer relevant. Who remembers what Obama promised in 2012? Did they even notice then./

    Elections in the US are won on TV. The visuals and the ads do all the work, all they need do with her right now is put lipstick on the pg and drag her out for the fair.
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    High-impact, at least for me, is something that could adversely and materially impact a significant number of Americans, critical national interests, etc. Right now, the circulating reports don't seem to rise to such a magnitude. There are things that could be tied together (not scandals, but choices) that might allow opponents to create a compelling high-impact narrative. To get there, a campaign would need to inventory the areas in which Secretary Clinton made unambiguously flawed choices (significant and credible information existed for alternatives and such information rose above ideological or partisan differences), lay out the consequences and risks of those choices, demonstrate that those consequences/risks are of a regional or global magnitude (imperil critical or vital U.S. interests), and that a continuation of the same kind of decision making process would, therefore, be damaging to the nation. Presently, no Democratic or Republican opponent has attempted, much less created such a narrative. Will they do so? Time will tell. Moreover, one can't expect Secretary Clinton to be indifferent to such a narrative. She will launch a vigorous defense, and the narrative will need to survive that defense. So long as enough people believe that her choices, given the information available at the time (not in hindsight), were reasonable, her defense will be successful. That's why her opponents will almost certainly need a compelling positive rationale for their election, rather relying exclusively on making a case as to why Secretary Clinton should not be elected.


    Well currently the donor issue with Foreign Interests with Pay to play is what is impacting her......moreover I wouldn't count out that the scandals couldn't be tied together.

    Also pointing out what her flawed choices were is the Republican candidates job. Not for the Media investigating her. Nor any IG's. Unless it is in violation of some policy or law.

    Yeah her Team is out defending her and so to her followers......But the ripples have already started. Once the money starts to leave.....what sign would that be?


    Clinton Foundation in campaign tailspin

    By Kenneth P. Vogel @kenvogel

    A handful of deep-pocketed donors are reconsidering their gifts to the $2 billion Clinton Foundation amid mounting questions about how it’s spending their money and suggestions of influence peddling,....snip~

    Oops: Bill Clinton 'Mistakenly' Misreports Taxable Income as Tax-Free Donations - Guy Benson

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    Re: Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well currently the donor issue with Foreign Interests with Pay to play is what is impacting her......moreover I wouldn't count out that the scandals couldn't be tied together.

    Also pointing out what her flawed choices were is the Republican candidates job. Not for the Media investigating her. Nor any IG's. Unless it is in violation of some policy or law.

    Yeah her Team is out defending her and so to her followers......But the ripples have already started. Once the money starts to leave.....what sign would that be?


    Clinton Foundation in campaign tailspin

    By Kenneth P. Vogel @kenvogel

    A handful of deep-pocketed donors are reconsidering their gifts to the $2 billion Clinton Foundation amid mounting questions about how it’s spending their money and suggestions of influence peddling,....snip~

    Oops: Bill Clinton 'Mistakenly' Misreports Taxable Income as Tax-Free Donations - Guy Benson
    I haven't commented on the Clinton Foundation, as there's currently a little more uncertainty given that the developments are still in a fairly early stage. Whether one is dealing with perceived issues, actual issues, or nothing beyond errors, inefficiency, etc., remains to be seen. The State Department has denied that donors used the Foundation as a means to influence Secretary of State Clinton.

    For now, I'm reserving my judgment. I tend to err on the side of being risk-averse when stories break and will hold off on reaching firm conclusions until I have reasonable certainty that I have enough credible information to support such conclusions.

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    Re: Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I haven't commented on the Clinton Foundation, as there's currently a little more uncertainty given that the developments are still in a fairly early stage. Whether one is dealing with perceived issues, actual issues, or nothing beyond errors, inefficiency, etc., remains to be seen. The State Department has denied that donors used the Foundation as a means to influence Secretary of State Clinton.

    For now, I'm reserving my judgment. I tend to err on the side of being risk-averse when stories break and will hold off on reaching firm conclusions until I have reasonable certainty that I have enough credible information to support such conclusions.

    That's where I did mention about not counting out scandals that correlate with others. Donors, Charities, Foreign Donors......especially when it comes to emails, records, and a server. Business with State and Personal mixed in together. Emails like from Blumenthal.....then playing Lobbyist. Now it is out and other News Organizations and Outlets are all jumping in the bandwagon.

    News cycles round and round.....made for those that don't like to pay attention or aren't interested.



    Boston Globe: Even More Undisclosed Foreign Money Flowed to Clinton Groups, Violating Rules.....

    Drip, drip, drip. Last week, we learned that the Clinton Foundation had failed to report tens of millions of dollars in foreign government donations in their tax filings, a revelation that has forced them to go back and amend at least five years' worth of documents. In three of those years -- all during Hillary Clinton's tenure at State -- the organization falsely listed foreign government income at $0. Yesterday, we discovered that at least 1,100 individual donors, many of them non-US citizens, managed to anonymously contribute to the Clintons' money pot through a Canadian offshoot "charity." Team Clinton's justification has completely fallen apart, with the New York Times piling on this morning. This secretive windfall violated the transparency agreement she signed upon joining the Obama administration as America's top diplomat. The idea, of course, was to provide the American people with an open look at any outside influences that may have been trying to pay for access and favor. Hillary broke those rules, just like she ignored "clear cut" regulations on private email usage and did so in the most egregious way imaginable (secret, insecure, private server, with tens of thousands of emails deleted and then wiped clean, without any oversight). Today, the Boston Globe blazes another path down the Clinton foreign money trail:

    An unprecedented ethics promise that played a pivotal role in helping Hillary Rodham Clinton win confirmation as secretary of state, soothing senators’ concerns about conflicts of interests with Clinton family charities, was uniformly bypassed by the biggest of the philanthropies involved. The Clinton Health Access Initiative never submitted information on any foreign donations to State Department lawyers for review during Clinton’s tenure from 2009 to 2013, Maura Daley, the organization’s spokeswoman, acknowledged to the Globe this week. She said the charity deemed it unnecessary, except in one case that she described as an “oversight.” During that time, grants from foreign governments increased by tens of millions of dollars to the Boston-based organization. Daley’s acknowledgement was the first by the charity of the broad scope of its apparent failures to fulfill the spirit of a crucial political pledge made by the Clinton family and their charities. The health initiative has previously acknowledged failing only to disclose the identity of its contributors, another requirement under the agreement. The failures make the Clinton Health Access Initiative, which is headquartered on Dorchester Avenue in South Boston, and goes by the acronym CHAI, a prominent symbol of the broken political promise and subsequent lack of accountability underlying the charity-related controversies that are dogging Clinton as she embarks on her campaign for president. The charity defended the lack of some disclosures on the grounds that the donations in question were simply passed through the charity to fund an existing project. Previously, it has acknowledged that mistakes were made......snip~

    Boston Globe: Even More Undisclosed Foreign Money Flowed to Clinton Groups, Violating Rules - Guy Benson

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pol...donations.html (Report: Clinton Foundation Failed to Disclose 1,100 Foreign Donations.....)

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    Re: Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

    Most of the million dollar donors to the Clinton "charity" were foreign, and most large donations came while Hillary was SOS!?!?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Clinton propaganda from the pen masters at the NYTimes
    Let me guess. You were one of those who believed every poll leading up to the 2012 election were wrong and that Romney was actually going to win. Am I right?

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    Re: Hillary Clinton’s Appeal Survives Scrutiny, Poll Says

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Current polling shows that she's anything but weak right now. Additional polling data and forthcoming fundraising reports will provide additional insight. It's risky for any candidate to underestimate his/her opposition. Assuming that Secretary Clinton, who may or may not ultimately win, will be a "pushover" is a dangerous assumption at this stage of the race given her polling numbers and campaign organization.



    If this assumption is accurate, then it would be irrational for her to take a course that could only be self-destructive.



    I'm sure she, like other candidates, will try to prepare for a range of questions and responses for her opponents. But unless her opponents make it necessary for her to dramatically expand upon her stated and restated responses and/or devote much greater attention to any given issue, she won't do so unless she believes other factors make it necessary. Right now, it appears that her strategy is about avoiding mistakes that could benefit her opponents and leaving the task of catching her completely to her opponents. Things could change in the heat of battle, but that's how they appear at the present time.
    I said she was a weak candidate.
    You don't have to be strong to capture die-hard Party members.
    That's what she's getting now ... in polls, anyway.
    And she's getting support from the money-men of her Party.
    How's her strength with the so-called Independents?

    If you think no one has noticed that she's in hiding and they naturally wonder why, you're mistaken.
    You're also mistaken if you think she can coast along without showing any skill as a campaigner.
    For crissake, she had to read her boilerplate immigration amnesty statement.
    She's being managed like crazy and it's not just typical campaign strategy.
    Better never than late.

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