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Thread: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

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    Re: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    there is no legal mechanism or structure to limit thier size, nor is there a valid metric to determine at what size a firm can be broken up ( unless , of course, if they are a monopoly).
    arguments pointing to a "cartel" like structure of big banks kinda fall flat when we look a the very nature of banks and how they are interconnected ( the whole industry is inherenlty interconnected, thereby makign claims of collusion to be suspect at best)

    in very real terms, our only viable option is to limit their behavior/actions.

    I think the " too big to fail" means" too "big to hold accountable" notion is a myth...." holding accountable" does not mean " killing them off"... and our system of laws supports punitve actions towards corporate officers and the firms themselves alike.
    we might have ot get rather creative in what those punitive actions are... but it's very doable.
    To hold someone/thing accountable for their actions is to let them take the fall when they fail. The size of these institutions prevent us from letting them do that.

    I do think that you're absolutely right in that we'd have to get rather creative in what those punitive actions are. Look at Dick Fuld, Lehman Brothers was a company that we did hold accountable by letting them fail, and now he's worth just a mere $100 million and living it up in his Manhattan penthouse (poor guy).

    I agree that limiting their size is a legal quagmire, but I do think it has an advantage over limiting behaviour in that it is a far more certain bet in terms of preventing a similar crash happening. There's still no consensus as to whether Glass Steagall would have helped prevent 07/08, nevermind other newer, untested regulations.
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    Re: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

    Banks that are too big to fail are to big to exist. I support the principal behind his proposal.

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    Re: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    I agree that limiting their size is a legal quagmire, but I do think it has an advantage over limiting behaviour in that it is a far more certain bet in terms of preventing a similar crash happening.
    I agree, and one legal entity that might be appropriate would be the anti-trust laws.
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    Re: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    To hold someone/thing accountable for their actions is to let them take the fall when they fail. The size of these institutions prevent us from letting them do that.
    it doesn't neccessarily mean lettign them fall, though that is an option..... another option might be bailing them out with certain terms to be guarateed ( which we didn't do in this last fiasco)
    there are lots of firms that would cause great pain to our economy if we allowed them to fail, but no one is callign to break up GM or Ford..or GE... or any of the big firms..... targeting banks is simply populist claptrap.

    I do think that you're absolutely right in that we'd have to get rather creative in what those punitive actions are. Look at Dick Fuld, Lehman Brothers was a company that we did hold accountable by letting them fail, and now he's worth just a mere $100 million and living it up in his Manhattan penthouse (poor guy).
    the aim isn't to kill them off or drive them into poverty.. it's to change the behavior....
    if that dude was a billionaire before, leaving him with a 100 million is probably still a good punishment.... banishing him from his tradecraft would be a nice addition, though.

    I agree that limiting their size is a legal quagmire, but I do think it has an advantage over limiting behaviour in that it is a far more certain bet in terms of preventing a similar crash happening. There's still no consensus as to whether Glass Steagall would have helped prevent 07/08, nevermind other newer, untested regulations.
    I tink it would simply mean, in the event of a crisis, that we would have wider and depper problems to address... you have to consider that the entire indutry is incestuous by nature...big banks, small banks, medium banks... they all live and die by each others swords.
    ... and then there is the fact that we would end up with far more firms requiring far more resources to adequately if we split them up.
    I don't think we would decrease any risks by splitting them up...I think the root problems would get worse.

    it's going to take some very smart folks to solve these problems... ideologues shouldn't apply or even pretend to think they have the answers to these very complex issues...even if those "solutions" sound good to the uninformed populace.
    for my money, the solutions are going to come from the banks themselves... they have a vested interests in solving principal-agent problems, and they have the people whom are smart enough to do so....teh federal government, and hte state government, just have ot provide " incentives" for them to do so... incentives like " solve it or spend a ton of time in club fed"

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    Re: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Banks that are too big to fail are to big to exist. I support the principal behind his proposal.
    I agree.

    One of the hallmarks of free-market capitalism is the weak & inefficient fail.

    Any less, and we no longer have free markets!
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    Re: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Nonsense, " reasonable " people have no idea what they're taking about.

    Its not " reasonable " to give a Government or a President who opposes the Free market on principle the power to be the arbiter of " fairness ".
    Reasonable people don't know what their talking about? Right, ok. And who's arguing for any one person to arbitrarily decide what fair markets and fair trade policies should be, hmm? And I can assure you that you'd not be happy in a scenario in which there were no restrictions and regulations imposed upon business and banking.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    I agree, and one legal entity that might be appropriate would be the anti-trust laws.
    the thing about anti-trust laws is that they are entirely geared towards enforcing competition between rival firms/industries..... "too big to fail" is NOT a competition problem, nor did the relative size of these firms lead to the problems we had( thier actions, however, did)

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    Re: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    I agree.

    One of the hallmarks of free-market capitalism is the weak & inefficient fail.

    Any less, and we no longer have free markets!
    the closest thing we have to a free market is the black market.

    the financial sector can be described as many things.. a" free market" is not one of them... not even close.

    there can be an argument made that heavy regulations results in firms finding creative ways around those regualtions in order to profit or gain advantage... such was, indeed, the nature of Credit Default Swaps ( before the crash, outstanding CDSs were valued at over 60 trillion dollars... none of them regulated or reported to govt agencies)

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    Re: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

    Anyone that proposes to break up a business should be sued and imprisoned. It's private property and you have no right to split it up. Period.

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    Re: Bernie Sanders To Introduce Bill To Break Up The Big Banks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Banks that are too big to fail are to big to exist. I support the principal behind his proposal.
    So you would support breaking Ford, GM, Chrysler, MS, Apple, Cargill, Koch Industries or Bechtel? A failure by any of these companies would be devastating to our economy.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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