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Shot NYPD cop dies

Interestingly your article goes on tho say

Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries, but criminologists say differences in how the statistics are collected make it impossible to produce a truly valid comparison.

Your blogger clearly didn't like that conclusion and preferred twitter instead so I'll stick with the criminologists if its all the same.

A far more directly comparable figure is US/UK levels of incarceration which show the US at 707 per 100,000 vs the UK at 148. Coupled with your 4.7 times greater homicide rate these figures certainly give lie to the fact that the US is either safer or more law abiding than the UK.

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you still do not understand what the term per capita means though you will obviously have difficulty in interpreting these figures correctly :(

Oh, so now you are going to try the old tactic of demanding that my stats provide absolute equal comparisons, while yours don't have to....You just submarined your own argument here on stats...If mine are "not truly valid" due to different ways that our countries compile numbers, which I stated in my post, and even used a fact checking site that I believe to be biased to the left of pro gun, than yours are just as invalid...And your source is Wiki? Are you serious? :lamo
 
Oh, so now you are going to try the old tactic of demanding that my stats provide absolute equal comparisons, while yours don't have to....You just submarined your own argument here on stats...If mine are "not truly valid" due to different ways that our countries compile numbers, which I stated in my post, and even used a fact checking site that I believe to be biased to the left of pro gun, than yours are just as invalid...And your source is Wiki? Are you serious? :lamo

You don't understand what the term per capita actually means and continue to embarrass yourself by your continued ignorance of it in this discussion frankly

If those figures are wrong then I'm sure you will have no problem correcting them then ? If you dont like that site there are plenty of others confirming them

Prison

http://www.idcr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WPPL-9-22.pdf

Homicide rate

https://www.quandl.com/collections/society/oecd-murder-rates
 
Absolutely correct Rev....All he is really doing is displaying his own fear of a piece of metal....Until he realizes that it is the person wielding the gun, and not the gun itself, then there will be no reason in his arguments, just platitudes, and talking points, and name calling....

Yes yes yes and lawnmowers don't mow lawns either people do. Lawns are a darned sight harder for people to mow without one though aren't they ? :lol:
 
You don't understand what the term per capita actually means and continue to embarrass yourself by your continued ignorance of it in this discussion frankly

If those figures are wrong then I'm sure you will have no problem correcting them then ? If you dont like that site there are plenty of others confirming them

Prison

http://www.idcr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WPPL-9-22.pdf

Homicide rate

https://www.quandl.com/collections/society/oecd-murder-rates

Well, Statistics are for liars, and con men....So, I won't get mired in in a back and forth of biased sites, with academics spewing numbers designed to bolster their own preconceived notions of what utopia would look like. They don't know, and neither do you...You think that ridding everyone else of their guns, all because you think you know better is a bunch of ****, and further is clear that thought comes from a young mind....Give yourself a little time on this earth and you may see things a bit differently...
 
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Stop wasting my time I'm not prepared to repost everything all over again in the hope that you even open the links this time round :roll:

Just saying you have posted it doesn't mean you did. There is greater access to American firearms. Yet murders are going down. Your argument is busted. Your claim is that...in spite of evidence of the exact opposite...that somehow it isn't true. It doesn't compute. Logically speaking.

Already done multiple times over throughout this thread

Saying it is so doesn't make it so.

We have more drug crime than you but still have hugely less gun crime nonetheless. That pretty much speaks for itself

You also treat it differently and have a rapidly reducing problem with drugs. Obviously the UK treats better.

Prove it ?


It only has to happen once though doesn't it ?



A view that was no doubt echoed by the great bulk of gun owners who then went on to lose family members in just such a manner

Prove it. I'm here. I've never lost a family member or a friend to an accident with a firearm. I won't ever be responsible for it either. Your argument is that because a number says I might do something...I will. Logically that does not compute.
 
Undoubtedly had the criminal not found it so easy to access a firearm in the first place this officer would still be alive today :(
So very true and the crux of the problem .
Sadly many , many more police , and thousands of people, will have to die until basic attitudes change.
Police .. clean your house
NRA .. support rather than oppose gun control legislation
Lawmakers .. grow balls and legislate gun control
People .. learn to respect and tolerate
 
Just saying you have posted it doesn't mean you did. There is greater access to American firearms. Yet murders are going down. Your argument is busted. Your claim is that...in spite of evidence of the exact opposite...that somehow it isn't true. It doesn't compute. Logically speaking.

At all costs protect the guns in the face of all reason right ?

Saying it is so doesn't make it so.

Linking so means it does. You had 50 cops shot and killed last year and we had none

You also treat it differently and have a rapidly reducing problem with drugs. Obviously the UK treats better.

The same thing goes even more so with firearms. We had 96 fatal shootings in 2001 by 2012 that was down to 30

http://www.juancole.com/2014/05/murders-firearm-england.html

Prove it. I'm here. I've never lost a family member or a friend to an accident with a firearm. I won't ever be responsible for it either. Your argument is that because a number says I might do something...I will. Logically that does not compute

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058_4
Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. - PubMed - NCBI
 
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So very true and the crux of the problem .
Sadly many , many more police , and thousands of people, will have to die until basic attitudes change.
Police .. clean your house
NRA .. support rather than oppose gun control legislation
Lawmakers .. grow balls and legislate gun control
People .. learn to respect and tolerate

Refreshing to see a reasoned response from your side of the pond for a change. Sadly until US citizens are less interested in protecting guns and more interested in protecting people those attitudes will never change :(
 
At all costs protect the guns in the face of all reason right ?



Linking so means it does. You had 50 cops shot and killed last year and we had none



The same thing goes even more so with firearms. We had 96 fatal shootings in 2001 by 2012 that was down to 30

http://www.juancole.com/2014/05/murders-firearm-england.html



http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058_4
Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. - PubMed - NCBI

Again. Our firearms access has increased. That includes public carry. Our deaths have gone down. Nothing you have produced has explained why that is.

And I've never shot myself. I'm not going to. I won't shoot friends or family either. Your statistics don't matter. They don't predict the future.
 
Again. Our firearms access has increased. That includes public carry. Our deaths have gone down. Nothing you have produced has explained why that is.

I don't have to given their steady increase from 29,000 to 32,000 since 2000

FastStats - Homicide

And I've never shot myself. I'm not going to. I won't shoot friends or family either. Your statistics don't matter. They don't predict the future.

Thats right they predict the extra risk you have chosen to expose your family to
 
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I don't have to given their steady increase from 29,000 to 32,000 since 2000

FastStats - Homicide

Why don't we stick to murder? You are including other statistics not relevant to the discussion. Not to mention...suicide isn't caused by a gun. It is caused by humans. Not to mention...a majority of that shift is suicide. And in those years we had a war, recession, and a major natural disaster. You don't think that might account for some of that?

Why don't you try this on for size:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html

You will note these come from the fbi and they show the decrease since the sunset of the assault weapons ban. From 2000-2005 it was essentially a statistical fluctuation. Then from 09-2013 we had a drop. That is not because of stricter gun control. That hasn't happened.

Where the hell did you get your numbers? What method? Because from what I see suicides, unintentional, and JUSTIFIED are all included.

Hell...given your numbers on just firearms deaths...there is a difference of only a few hundred. That is essentially an insignificant statistical fluctuation in between those years. That isn't a major change. It is indicative of nothing.

OH! I would also add that our population changed too. By 34.3 million. We had an increase. A significant increase. And our numbers changed only slightly.


Thats right they predict the extra risk you have chosen to expose your family to

Nope. They are at no extra risk. My gun is holstered and under control. Maybe if YOU handled a gun around people they would be at risk, but I know the rules. It is in a solid holster, concealed, and under my direct control. When I don't have a gun on me it is locked in a box. When it is in my hand it is pointed in a safe direction.

Anything to avoid reality huh?
 
Why don't we stick to murder? You are including other statistics not relevant to the discussion. Not to mention...suicide isn't caused by a gun. It is caused by humans. Not to mention...a majority of that shift is suicide. And in those years we had a war, recession, and a major natural disaster. You don't think that might account for some of that?

Why don't you try this on for size:

Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2012

You will note these come from the fbi and they show the decrease since the sunset of the assault weapons ban. From 2000-2005 it was essentially a statistical fluctuation. Then from 09-2013 we had a drop. That is not because of stricter gun control. That hasn't happened.

Where the hell did you get your numbers? What method? Because from what I see suicides, unintentional, and JUSTIFIED are all included.

Hell...given your numbers on just firearms deaths...there is a difference of only a few hundred. That is essentially an insignificant statistical fluctuation in between those years. That isn't a major change. It is indicative of nothing.

OH! I would also add that our population changed too. By 34.3 million. We had an increase. A significant increase. And our numbers changed only slightly.




Nope. They are at no extra risk. My gun is holstered and under control. Maybe if YOU handled a gun around people they would be at risk, but I know the rules. It is in a solid holster, concealed, and under my direct control. When I don't have a gun on me it is locked in a box. When it is in my hand it is pointed in a safe direction.

Anything to avoid reality huh?

Your gun deaths are increasing not decreasing and you are putting your family at unnecessary risk by having a firearm in the home. Theres not a whole lot more I can add that I haven't already. If you choose to stay in denial then good luck with that
 
Your gun deaths are increasing not decreasing and you are putting your family at unnecessary risk by having a firearm in the home. Theres not a whole lot more I can add that I haven't already. If you choose to stay in denial then good luck with that
Wow, way to go, you just got destroyed by stonewall's post...you failed to address even the simplest of points being made in favor of your bumper sticker reply here...

I think everyone now sees how simple you argument is now...you don't like guns, ok we get it...you don't have to own one. But I can if I wish and I don't need your permission or approval to do so. If my owning a gun makes you uncomfortable while I live thousands of miles away with an ocean dividing us, all I can say is too bad for you.
 
Wow, way to go, you just got destroyed by stonewall's post...you failed to address even the simplest of points being made in favor of your bumper sticker reply here...

What you mean apart from the multitude of links to studies and stats he's been provided with throughout this thread ? He doesn't even bother opening them anyway :lol:
 
Your gun deaths are increasing not decreasing and you are putting your family at unnecessary risk by having a firearm in the home. Theres not a whole lot more I can add that I haven't already. If you choose to stay in denial then good luck with that

Not a word on the disasters, war, recession, the increasing populations, or the overall reduction in deaths per capita?

Yea. I thought so. You tried to use numbers, and I used your very own plus other accurate data and destroyed your argument lol.

Oh. And I've lived in a home with firearms my entire life, my dad did, and my grandfather did. NONE of them have ever died by firearm accident. Nobody in those houses did. Nobody is at risk. Your argument is not valid.

Did you know that 100% of murders involve humans?
 
What you mean apart from the multitude of links to studies and stats he's been provided with throughout this thread ? He doesn't even bother opening them anyway :lol:

I did. And I thrashed your argument as a result. Our per capita has gone down. Just in case you are not aware, that means per 100k murders. That is important because our population gained an extra 340 sets of 100,000 to average in. Yea. 34,000,000 give or take.

Oh. We had a war. A hurricane that destroyed a city. A major recession too. You don't seem to want to look deeper than your opinion huh? Not willing to challenge the party line that you were sold across the pond? Not willing to look at the fact that our per capita rates went down? Lmao! What a joke man.
 
Not a word on the disasters, war, recession, the increasing populations, or the overall reduction in deaths per capita?

You've been given ample information contradicting that already

Yea. I thought so. You tried to use numbers, and I used your very own plus other accurate data and destroyed your argument lol.

Where ? The UK had 30 gun murders and the US had 8,855 in 2012 !

Oh. And I've lived in a home with firearms my entire life, my dad did, and my grandfather did. NONE of them have ever died by firearm accident. Nobody in those houses did. Nobody is at risk. Your argument is not valid.

It only has to happen once though doesn't it ?

Did you know that 100% of murders involve humans?

Indeed and nearly three quarters of your grossly inflated figures involve the use of a firearm. Firearms make murder far too easy to commit
 
I did. And I thrashed your argument as a result. Our per capita has gone down. Just in case you are not aware, that means per 100k murders. That is important because our population gained an extra 340 sets of 100,000 to average in. Yea. 34,000,000 give or take.

Your continued desperation to protect your guns is quite bewildering given the facts

Everytime a gun injures or kills in self-defense, one is used:

11 times for a completed or attempted suicide
7 times in a criminal assault or homicide
4 times in an unintentional shooting death or injury

USA Gun Violence Statistics | heedinggodscall.org

Oh. We had a war. A hurricane that destroyed a city. A major recession too. You don't seem to want to look deeper than your opinion huh? Not willing to challenge the party line that you were sold across the pond? Not willing to look at the fact that our per capita rates went down? Lmao! What a joke man.

The joke is your continued defense of the completely indefensible. In 2000 you had 28,663 gun deaths in 2014 you had 32,561, and you are proud of this !!! :shock:
 
What you mean apart from the multitude of links to studies and stats he's been provided with throughout this thread ? He doesn't even bother opening them anyway :lol:

No, I mean what I said...Your arrogant premise that YOU know better who should, or shouldn't have a gun is rooted in fear, and irrational premise...It is typical, boilerplate anti gun blather that is generally dishonest, and steeped in slogan rather than rational thinking...So, with that we are done.
 
No, I mean what I said...Your arrogant premise that YOU know better who should, or shouldn't have a gun is rooted in fear, and irrational premise...It is typical, boilerplate anti gun blather that is generally dishonest, and steeped in slogan rather than rational thinking...So, with that we are done.

Oh I agree there is very great intellectual dishonesty on display here, but it most certainly isn't on my part.
 
Oh I agree there is very great intellectual dishonesty on display here, but it most certainly isn't on my part.

Oh but it is....And has been shown to you how now with two separate posters...So with that we are done...
 
Oh but it is....And has been shown to you how now with two separate posters...So with that we are done...

Theres been a lot of such intellectual dishonesty that going round on this thread from US posters so here are the facts. There is a pathological pleasure at large in the US where there are nearly 300 million guns ,one third of them handguns which are useless for hunting purposes, but brilliant as tools for killing. This represents the highest concentration of private ownership of murder weapons in the entire world. The rate for murder by gunfire is 100 times that of the United Kingdom.

The plain fact is that all too many Americans are intoxicated with the percieved glamour of guns and are quite indifferent to the havoc and horror they create. Worse still, they regard them as fuel for the kind of anarchic, nihilist entertainment in which they rejoice. They will therefore defend their gun fetishism at whatever the cost in blood and suffering within the wider society. You can see this exhibited every time there is a massacre and there follows a rush to empty the gun shop shelves in case their supine government should clamp down on their lethal 'toys'

Such appetites may, and should, be easily satisfied with gun clubs, where gun nuts can shoot at inanimate targets to their hearts’ content, with little harm to anyone. Why don’t they? Because such a skilful sport lacks the one ingredient which infatuates them the most ,the risk of death through the exercise of individual power. It is sadly a situation that won't be changing soon as the families of the further 33,000 or so likely to needlessly die again this year will bear witness

Sorry if the truth hurts but there you have it. I'm the one who's done now :roll:
 
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You've been given ample information contradicting that already

d3a44befb4f2f1813934897cf5769e85.jpg


Obviously not. You are wrong. Suck it up.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html

Where ? The UK had 30 gun murders and the US had 8,855 in 2012 !

And the price of rice in China is $9.95 per CWT.

It only has to happen once though doesn't it ?

LMAO! And yet it hasn't happened. I'm glad we don't oppress our people based on "it only has to happen once."

Indeed and nearly three quarters of your grossly inflated figures involve the use of a firearm. Firearms make murder far too easy to commit

There are 45 million gun owners or so. That means only .02% (I rounded up) of them actually committed murder. But then...when you consider that those are legally owned firearms...that means. That LESS than .02% committed murder.

But then.

You are claiming that it is the gun that is causing the crime. So since there are about 310 million firearms in the U.S....... .003% are used to commit murder. Since you are blaming guns...or access to guns...you are arguing against some cold hard logic here man. You can't claim that .02% or .003% is equal to causation.
 
Your continued desperation to protect your guns is quite bewildering given the facts

Everytime a gun injures or kills in self-defense, one is used:

11 times for a completed or attempted suicide
7 times in a criminal assault or homicide
4 times in an unintentional shooting death or injury

USA Gun Violence Statistics | heedinggodscall.org



The joke is your continued defense of the completely indefensible. In 2000 you had 28,663 gun deaths in 2014 you had 32,561, and you are proud of this !!! :shock:

OMG!! We had a population increase of 34.3 MILLION people in that time. Our PER CAPITA RATE SUNK!!!!!

aa63914cc7cda3d84693ccbf9cf93326.jpg


Why won't you acknowledge this? Hm? Just wondering?

Why won't you acknowledge :

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/21/us/21depress.html?pagewanted=all

You will note in the above that suicides TRIPLED after Katrina.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/27/news/economy/ben-bernanke-great-depression/

Hmmm? We had war, recession, and natural disaster. You are blaming an object. You are blaming an object regardless of cold hard numbers that prove you wrong. Numbers that show our rates sunk. Our population grew. And our guns went up.



Let me ask you a simple question. Does murder go up if a population rises? The NUMBERS.
 
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