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Shot NYPD cop dies

- Taking of a human life without just cause. Protest to show senseless killings need to stop.

- I see no reason to riot. All riots do is hurt innocent people.


Hope your not one that believes the killing of this LEO was justified.

I ask this question earlier. Who would be the target of the protest in this scenario? And why protest cop killing now? Cops killed in the line of duty isn't exactly a new thing.

By the way. In case you didn't know, the guy was caught with the help from the same community that some say were happy that the officer was murdered.
 
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Of course not because these liberal asshats don't think all lives matter. They're probably celebrating the death of Moore by going out and looting a store or something.

As a "liberal asshat", I think all lives matter. Care to help me understand the distinction between the Op and say.....The recent shooting in South Carolina or is bashing liberals just your religion?

You've made many cogent points in the past on other topics, and while I don't always agree I can respect your opinion, but this is just garbage, you're better than that.
 
As a "liberal asshat", I think all lives matter. Care to help me understand the distinction between the Op and say.....The recent shooting in South Carolina or is bashing liberals just your religion?

You've made many cogent points in the past on other topics, and while I don't always agree I can respect your opinion, but this is just garbage, you're better than that.

Oh, I was just thinking of cases, like the college president that was made to apologize for accidentally thinking that all lives matter, that's all...
 
Who is arguing that the right to guns being inalienable means kids should shoot uzi's and have guns left out next to them? How would the owner not be culpable for that? Its certainly the law where I am.

Is this what you meant by "run wild"?

BTW-a semi auto uzi with strict supervision is easy to control and mild on the recoil-there are worse choices for kids-but ALL involve adult supervision.

Look, gun owners come with a wide array of ideas that they think are acceptable when it comes to gun safety, accountability, self protection and laws they agree and don't agree with.

Are you serious in your question about inalienable rights of gun ownership?

Last week, in pointing out the problems with Jill Lepore’s attempt to undermine the Second Amendment and justify more gun control, I focused on the fact that our right to keep and bear arms is a God-given right. As such, it preceded not only the Second Amendment but also the founding of the United States. In other words: We don’t have the right to keep and bear arms because the Bill of Rights says so; rather, the Bill of Rights says so because the right to keep and bear arms is intrinsic to our very being: it is a right with which we were endowed by our Creator.

Another example

The Heritage Foundation's take

As far as Uzi's are concerned, while never having shot one, I am very familiar with the characteristics of the bullet variants used well, all but the .41AE. The others 9mm, .22LR, .45ACP are all rounds I use in weapons I own. You mention semi-auto. The weapons in both cases I left links for were full auto. I assume given the recoil the weapons were using the most common variant of the Uzi, the 9mm as we both know 22LR has almost no recoil and its hard to believe that anyone, even a serious gun nut would give an inexperienced kid an Uzi firing .45acp.

If you are onboard with weapon accountability, then we have little to argue about, but every time I bring up changes in gun culture I'm accused of being an extreme liberal who only wants to take away firearms.

It was gun culture run amok that allowed the children in the examples I gave to take apart in the things that they did. These weren't parent's out on a private shooting range in Montana or West Virginia. In the case of the 8 year old boy, it was an event sponsored by the local police chief with lots of people witnessing and instructors around and no one thought to say, "hey, U'm, It's a really bad idea for your 8yo to be shooting a fully auto 9mm Uzi. If anyone had said that, they would have been attacked and reminded of our "rights"..ect, ect....It's crazy and it needs to change.

In the irony of ironies, the father that allowed his son to shoot a fully automatic Uzi that killed him, not only isn't held accountable, but he collects a settlement of $700K (collected from the gun and ammunition manufactures) and writes a book on dealing with grief that sells for $24 a pop on Amazon....

Seriously F-ed up.
 
Oh, I was just thinking of cases, like the college president that was made to apologize for accidentally thinking that all lives matter, that's all...

*Sigh*...Well, I see the point you're making now, perhaps next time you could clue the rest of us on and try to refrain from generalizing like that? Fair enough?

I wrote another piece in another post I don't feel like looking for, but the fact that black culture won't let us forget they are black is certainly part of the problem. Basically what I wrote is that people don't understand the difference between racism and discrimination. Very few cops are racist, but almost everyone discriminates. Ironically the Sci-Fi channels "Through the Wormhole" offered some evidence to what I wrote a few days later with this show:

Are we all bigots that showed that cultural sterotypes help define our subconscince, and when looking at a black man in a hood holding a cell phone (for example) we are ALL more likely to see a gun, including other black people (this was demonstrated by experiment).

There is work to be done on both sides, cops need to clean themselves up. Ironically popular black culture is simultaneously embracing and exploiting violent culture and, simultaneously falling victim to it.

Does that let cops off the hook? of course not, but it should help people understand behavior motivations for discimination, rather than racial motivations.
 
Look, gun owners come with a wide array of ideas that they think are acceptable when it comes to gun safety, accountability, self protection and laws they agree and don't agree with.

Are you serious in your question about inalienable rights of gun ownership?



Another example

The Heritage Foundation's take

As far as Uzi's are concerned, while never having shot one, I am very familiar with the characteristics of the bullet variants used well, all but the .41AE. The others 9mm, .22LR, .45ACP are all rounds I use in weapons I own. You mention semi-auto. The weapons in both cases I left links for were full auto. I assume given the recoil the weapons were using the most common variant of the Uzi, the 9mm as we both know 22LR has almost no recoil and its hard to believe that anyone, even a serious gun nut would give an inexperienced kid an Uzi firing .45acp.

If you are onboard with weapon accountability, then we have little to argue about, but every time I bring up changes in gun culture I'm accused of being an extreme liberal who only wants to take away firearms.

It was gun culture run amok that allowed the children in the examples I gave to take apart in the things that they did. These weren't parent's out on a private shooting range in Montana or West Virginia. In the case of the 8 year old boy, it was an event sponsored by the local police chief with lots of people witnessing and instructors around and no one thought to say, "hey, U'm, It's a really bad idea for your 8yo to be shooting a fully auto 9mm Uzi. If anyone had said that, they would have been attacked and reminded of our "rights"..ect, ect....It's crazy and it needs to change.

In the irony of ironies, the father that allowed his son to shoot a fully automatic Uzi that killed him, not only isn't held accountable, but he collects a settlement of $700K (collected from the gun and ammunition manufactures) and writes a book on dealing with grief that sells for $24 a pop on Amazon....

Seriously F-ed up.

Dude, you are talking about a KID, a KID whos father greatly overstated the safety of they weapon. That TRAGEDY is not a justification to curtail my right (which I believe is natural, btw). ALL rights come with responsibility and can be misused even to dangerous effect-if you dont like at least some degree of danger and responsibility, freedom might not be your thing.

Im a Paramedic I can tell you about the things I have personally seen that might lead you to say there is an out of control "car" culture, would you be for banning those?

What I did learn from your post-was that perhaps uzi made a .41AE variant, makes sense as they are Israeli companies.
 
Dude, you are talking about a KID, a KID whos father greatly overstated the safety of they weapon. That TRAGEDY is not a justification to curtail my right (which I believe is natural, btw). ALL rights come with responsibility and can be misused even to dangerous effect-if you dont like at least some degree of danger and responsibility, freedom might not be your thing.

Im a Paramedic I can tell you about the things I have personally seen that might lead you to say there is an out of control "car" culture, would you be for banning those?

What I did learn from your post-was that perhaps uzi made a .41AE variant, makes sense as they are Israeli companies.




*sigh*

Just as the hypothetical refusal to cater pizza to a gay wedding triggers death threats, every accident involving a gun demands a call for gun control.

And I keep making the case that crime and gun control have no relationship whatsoever, and accidents can happen with any sport or hobby. In the 60's I knew of a kid who lost the ability to talk because he took a hockey puck in the throat. Ban hockey pucks!

I feel off a mountain years ago, cracked several ribs and tore the ligaments in my knee. Ban the Rockies!

Now let's consider a 23 year old kid in a high powered Porsche with a head full of coke and a belly full of booze going 185Km down I-5.

What the **** do you "control" there that isn't already "controlled"

As is always the case with Amerkan liberals, thinking is not required
 
Will there be crowds in the street brandishing signs that say "All Lives Matter"? Will Sharpton be speaking out against the actions of this black criminal that killed Officer Moore? Will there be a DOJ investigation into the rights of this officer's rights being violated?

It's different in that one is a cop representing the government, while we mourn his death, hashtags and protests would not have anyone to focus on. The crowds that gather for his procession, funeral, are whats appropriate, who would you protest?



How long in this thread before someone stands up for the criminal in this story? I mean long arrest record, and appeared to have a gun in his waistband? I mean, "No probable cause" right? To these people that argue this crap, the officer 'got what he deserved' right? Disgusting....

Probably a lot longer that it will take someone to use this dead cop as a bat against those for police reform..... oh wait.


And third officer killing in six months? But it's not a dangerous job though...:roll:

It's not as dangerous as we are led to believe. please with the emotional arguments and using this tragedy and crime as a reason to attack those looking to make policing better for everyone.

This is NYC alone.

New York City Reaches 7 Construction Deaths for 2015 | Construction Equipment

a bit of perspective helps over the fear mongering.
 
*sigh*

Just as the hypothetical refusal to cater pizza to a gay wedding triggers death threats, every accident involving a gun demands a call for gun control.

And I keep making the case that crime and gun control have no relationship whatsoever, and accidents can happen with any sport or hobby. In the 60's I knew of a kid who lost the ability to talk because he took a hockey puck in the throat. Ban hockey pucks!

I feel off a mountain years ago, cracked several ribs and tore the ligaments in my knee. Ban the Rockies!

Now let's consider a 23 year old kid in a high powered Porsche with a head full of coke and a belly full of booze going 185Km down I-5.

What the **** do you "control" there that isn't already "controlled"

As is always the case with Amerkan liberals, thinking is not required

Yeah its silly. IIRC in the case of the uzi, the father (a physician) was helping his son shoot a full auto uzi for the first time and it whipped around and hit the boy. Horrible-in every way-but a freak accident. Abusus non tollit usum.
 
Probably no protest, given the the shooter has been arrested.
 
Yeah its silly. IIRC in the case of the uzi, the father (a physician) was helping his son shoot a full auto uzi for the first time and it whipped around and hit the boy. Horrible-in every way-but a freak accident. Abusus non tollit usum.

You know where I stand there.

Uzi's should be banned.

Two, the dad should go to jail.

But the US in its wisdom does not ban Uzi's; so like high powered cars and substances, Americans need to learn to live with them.

I am constantly horrified at the demand for gun control as some sort of "safety" idea when in fact it is religion; all the while the real carnage is on US highways.

With the logic of anti-gunism, all roads should be banned, let alone cars, buses, trucks, motor cycles et all
 
You know where I stand there.

Uzi's should be banned.

Two, the dad should go to jail.

But the US in its wisdom does not ban Uzi's; so like high powered cars and substances, Americans need to learn to live with them.

I am constantly horrified at the demand for gun control as some sort of "safety" idea when in fact it is religion; all the while the real carnage is on US highways.

With the logic of anti-gunism, all roads should be banned, let alone cars, buses, trucks, motor cycles et all



Uzi's are glorified 9mm pistols in civilian mode (semi auto), if it's full auto it's already illegal.
 
a bit of perspective helps over the fear mongering.

Yes indeed it does.

Last year in the US 126 police officers were killed in the line of duty in the UK we had none.

The same year over a thousand people were killed by police in the US in the UK we had one

You are over 50 times more likely to be killed by your own police force than by terrorism acts
 
No it just makes it more avoidable. The young officers tragic death in the OP is just more collateral damage done as a consequence of a crazy system

How so? If the murder rate is general is the same (I assume lower?, im having some trouble finding stats) we can assume that they would find another weapon in lieu of a gun. It would be fair to assume that the rate of katana related murders is higher in Japan, this doesnt mean that the presence of Katanas makes Japan inherently more dangerous. And of course all of this is assuming that all the guns in the U.S would magically disapear once a ban was imposed, which given the U.S´s highly organized traddition of organized crime would appear somewhat unlikely.
 
Yes indeed it does.

Last year in the US 126 police officers were killed in the line of duty in the UK we had none.

how many were homicides? how many were accidents? this is important.


The same year over a thousand people were killed by police in the US in the UK we had one

You are over 50 times more likely to be killed by your own police force than by terrorists


you are being generous with 50 times, I think it was 400 times last I calculated.
 
How so? If the murder rate is general is the same (I assume lower?, im having some trouble finding stats) we can assume that they would find another weapon in lieu of a gun. It would be fair to assume that the rate of katana related murders is higher in Japan, this doesnt mean that the presence of Katanas makes Japan inherently more dangerous. And of course all of this is assuming that all the guns in the U.S would magically disapear once a ban was imposed, which given the U.S´s highly organized traddition of organized crime would appear somewhat unlikely.

Its not that hard to find international comparison stats if you really want to.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Take out the firearms from the equation and US murder rates overall would not be too dissimilar from those of the UK and other developed countries
 
Dude, you are talking about a KID, a KID whos father greatly overstated the safety of they weapon. That TRAGEDY is not a justification to curtail my right (which I believe is natural, btw). ALL rights come with responsibility and can be misused even to dangerous effect-if you dont like at least some degree of danger and responsibility, freedom might not be your thing.

Im a Paramedic I can tell you about the things I have personally seen that might lead you to say there is an out of control "car" culture, would you be for banning those?

What I did learn from your post-was that perhaps uzi made a .41AE variant, makes sense as they are Israeli companies.

The father wasn't the only one overstating the safety of the weapon. The organizers, the range officers, the event organizers and the other parents who also let their children participate overestimated the safety as well. Most of these same people would shoot a dirty look to a parent that let their kid sit in the front seat w/o a seatbelt, but think it's perfectly normal to let a child fire an Uzi.

Insofar as "natural rights' or "god given rights", they are a nice idea, but they don't exist unless other people agree, which means without the agreement of others around you that the rights are "inalienable" or "natural", they are nothing. You must convince your fellow man in the value of the rights you claim are "natural". Which is not to say that I don't support firearm ownership, just that I think there are reasonable limits with regard to responsibility and attitude.

Ahhh the ubiquitous "car" argument. An argument that only helps demonstrate my point. We know that everything we do comes with some risk. Cars like anything else can be abused and we try to put common sense limits on cars. We require licences, insurance, registration impose speed limits, safety tolerances ect....We put more limits on a car than say a bicycle because of the potential danger it poses. The difference between a firearm and a car is one is designed exclusively to project force in an extremely compact and efficient package (pocket sized in some cases), cars are a vital part of our overall lifestyle and economy. If all the cars in the world vanished, modern life as we know it would end.

While a car can project force, that isn't it's design goal. It is designed to ferry around people and objects and we accept the tradeoff between it's utility and the inevitable consequences of misuse. But ever since the car was developed it has gotten safer and safer. Firearms have stated the same and the culture has be come more resistant than ever to social change, either by government or within itself. Frankly I think most of the changes have to come within the culture rather than through legislation. before I'm reminded that crime has fallen, I would challenge the notion that the reason it's fallen cannot be correlated to firearms in any meaningful way. Changes in the crime rate have lots of participating factors.
 
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Yes indeed it does.

Last year in the US 126 police officers were killed in the line of duty in the UK we had none.

The same year over a thousand people were killed by police in the US in the UK we had one

You are over 50 times more likely to be killed by your own police force than by terrorism acts

Historically, before or after any gun laws-the UK has always had a lower rate of crime against law enforcement.
 
how many were homicides? how many were accidents? this is important.

here is the breakdown for the US

National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: 126 Law Enforcement Officer Fatalities Nationwide in 2014

For the UK here is the all time historical list which is but a tiny fraction of the US totals even allowing for population differentials

List of British police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you are being generous with 50 times, I think it was 400 times last I calculated

Probably true I'm just going by the figures I've read lately

You
 
The father wasn't the only one overstating the safety of the weapon. The organizers, the range officers, the event organizers and the other parents who also let their children participate overestimated the safety as well. Most of these same people would shoot a dirty look to a parent that let their kid sit in the front seat w/o a seatbelt, but think it's perfectly normal to let a child fire an Uzi.

Insofar as "natural rights' or "god given rights", they are a nice idea, but they don't exist unless other people agree, which means without the agreement of others around you that the rights are "inalienable" or "natural", they are nothing. You must convince your fellow man in the value of the rights you claim are "natural". Which is not to say that I don't support firearm ownership, just that I think there are reasonable limits with regard to responsibility and attitude.

Ahhh the ubiquitous "car" argument. An argument that only helps demonstrate my point. We know that everything we do comes with some risk. Cars like anything else can be abused and we try to put common sense limits on cars. We require licences, insurance, registration impose speed limits, safety tolerances ect....We put more limits on a car than say a bicycle because of the potential danger it poses. The difference between a firearm and a car is one is designed exclusively to project force in an extremely compact and efficient package (pocket sized in some cases), cars are a vital part of our overall lifestyle and economy. If all the cars in the world vanished, modern life as we know it would end.

While a car can project force, that isn't it's design goal. It is designed to ferry around people and objects and we accept the tradeoff between it's utility and the inevitable consequences of misuse. But ever since the car was developed it has gotten safer and safer. Firearms have stated the same and the culture has be come more resistant than ever to social change, either by government or within itself. Frankly I think most of the changes have to come within the culture rather than through legislation. before I'm reminded that crime has fallen, I would challenge the notion that the reason it's fallen cannot be correlated to firearms in any meaningful way. Changes in the crime rate have lots of participating factors.

The participants and supervisors at the range knew the risks as well. You are shooting and in close proximity to rapidly expanding gases and bullets. It was a freak event, but freak events can happen, its very much the exception.

As for design-thats not what we are talking about-an uzi wasn't designed to swing around and hit the shooter in the head. Again-a freak event. Just like cars aren't designed to kill others and yet it happens over 40K times a year. Ive lost count of the people Ive seen killed falling between the bed and wall or toilet and wall-quietly suffocated-should we ban toilets and beds? Firearms are already under close scrutiny-as they should be.

The British didn't agree with the colonists about natural rights. They found out the hard way they weren't to be taken lightly.
 
here is the breakdown for the US

National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: 126 Law Enforcement Officer Fatalities Nationwide in 2014

For the UK here is the all time historical list which is but a tiny fraction of the US totals even allowing for population differentials

List of British police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Probably true I'm just going by the figures I've read lately

You




49 traffic related incidents.
27 from illness and related issues

50 which is up from 25 the previous year were from "firearms related deaths"...
14 from other types of assaults

statistically with nearly 1 million police officers, 126 dead, 64 from homicides, is a very low number.

that would put the homicide rate among police at 6.4 per 100,000

homicide rate in US is 4.7 per 100,000 (2013 rates).


Statistically police work is not much more dangerous than being a civilian.
 
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