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Thread: Shot NYPD cop dies

  1. #421
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    You are kidding yourself if you think I'm just about to repost everything I already have on this thread confirming it
    So far I've seen exactly 0 evidence that proves that. I've seen greater access to firearms here in America...and a reduction in homicides though


    And the easy access to guns makes the killing of those officers that much easier
    Prove it

    Did you know the UK has a worse per capita drug problem than the US ?

    List of countries by prevalence of opiates use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So simply blaming your gun killings on drug abuse can't be it
    I'm not. We have a variety of issues. Your system also handles drug crime differently.



    If you keep that gun in your home you are in fact seven times more likely to see death or injury to you or your family than from any intruder
    Did you know that statistic is complete garbage? I've lived in a home with 20 guns. I didn't die 20 times over. Or is that number supposed to be 140? Idk. I have 2 in my place now.

    Of course...I'm not a moron who has no concept of how to safely handle a firearm. I won't be dying by own hand. And I certainly won't be hurting anyone in my family. Again...I'm smart enough to handle a firearm. It really isn't complicated.
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Dude whines about American guns, but when you ask him what to do about his perceived issue, he's rather ambiguous.
    If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Dude whines about American guns, but when you ask him what to do about his perceived issue, he's rather ambiguous.
    Absolutely correct Rev....All he is really doing is displaying his own fear of a piece of metal....Until he realizes that it is the person wielding the gun, and not the gun itself, then there will be no reason in his arguments, just platitudes, and talking points, and name calling....
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Your argument is disingenuous at best...you are cherry picking to come up with your lop sided figures. You want to use per capita when it suits your argument, then make broad claims when the per capita figures don't...for instance there was a popular meme some time ago comparing US and England crime stats, and the Daily telegraph stated that the numbers were over 2,000 per 100,000 violent crimes in England vs. under 500 per 100,000 in the US...Politifact looked at this and decided that the stats were an unequal comparison largely because of the way the different countries calculated their numbers, much like you attempt with your arguments. But, they looked at the numbers and compared them closer to like categories and came up with this....

    "The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a ‘violent crime’ as one of four specific offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault." By contrast, "the British definition includes all ‘crimes against the person,’ including simple assaults, all robberies, and all ‘sexual offenses,’ as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and ‘forcible rapes.

    snip

    We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

    For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

    For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people."

    Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does | PolitiFact

    So, while it certainly is not 4 times the rate in England v the US that the original meme tried to put forth, it still comes out in the apples to apples comparison with England being a more violent country than the US. So, when wringing your hands over OUR gun laws, maybe you'd do best to consider your own violent crime....Clearly, your country is more violent, and less safe for the average citizen than the US.
    Interestingly your article goes on to say

    Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries, but criminologists say differences in how the statistics are collected make it impossible to produce a truly valid comparison.

    Your blogger clearly didn't like that conclusion and preferred twitter instead so I'll stick with the criminologists if its all the same.

    A far more directly comparable figure is US/UK levels of incarceration which show the US at 707 per 100,000 vs the UK at 148. Coupled with your 4.7 times greater homicide rate these figures certainly give lie to the fact that the US is either safer or more law abiding than the UK.

    List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If you still do not understand what the term per capita means though you will obviously have difficulty in interpreting these figures correctly
    Last edited by flogger; 05-13-15 at 10:17 AM.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    So far I've seen exactly 0 evidence that proves that. I've seen greater access to firearms here in America...and a reduction in homicides though
    Stop wasting my time I'm not prepared to repost everything all over again in the hope that you even open the links this time round

    Prove it
    Already done multiple times over throughout this thread

    I'm not. We have a variety of issues. Your system also handles drug crime differently.
    We have more drug crime than you but still have hugely less gun crime nonetheless. That pretty much speaks for itself

    Did you know that statistic is complete garbage?
    Prove it ?

    I've lived in a home with 20 guns. I didn't die 20 times over. Or is that number supposed to be 140? Idk. I have 2 in my place now.
    It only has to happen once though doesn't it ?

    Of course...I'm not a moron who has no concept of how to safely handle a firearm. I won't be dying by own hand. And I certainly won't be hurting anyone in my family. Again...I'm smart enough to handle a firearm. It really isn't complicated.
    A view that was no doubt echoed by the great bulk of gun owners who then went on to lose family members in just such a manner

  6. #426
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Interestingly your article goes on tho say

    Our preliminary attempt to make an apples-to-apples comparison shows a much smaller difference in violent crime rates between the two countries, but criminologists say differences in how the statistics are collected make it impossible to produce a truly valid comparison.

    Your blogger clearly didn't like that conclusion and preferred twitter instead so I'll stick with the criminologists if its all the same.

    A far more directly comparable figure is US/UK levels of incarceration which show the US at 707 per 100,000 vs the UK at 148. Coupled with your 4.7 times greater homicide rate these figures certainly give lie to the fact that the US is either safer or more law abiding than the UK.

    List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If you still do not understand what the term per capita means though you will obviously have difficulty in interpreting these figures correctly
    Oh, so now you are going to try the old tactic of demanding that my stats provide absolute equal comparisons, while yours don't have to....You just submarined your own argument here on stats...If mine are "not truly valid" due to different ways that our countries compile numbers, which I stated in my post, and even used a fact checking site that I believe to be biased to the left of pro gun, than yours are just as invalid...And your source is Wiki? Are you serious?
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh, so now you are going to try the old tactic of demanding that my stats provide absolute equal comparisons, while yours don't have to....You just submarined your own argument here on stats...If mine are "not truly valid" due to different ways that our countries compile numbers, which I stated in my post, and even used a fact checking site that I believe to be biased to the left of pro gun, than yours are just as invalid...And your source is Wiki? Are you serious?
    You don't understand what the term per capita actually means and continue to embarrass yourself by your continued ignorance of it in this discussion frankly

    If those figures are wrong then I'm sure you will have no problem correcting them then ? If you dont like that site there are plenty of others confirming them

    Prison

    http://www.idcr.org.uk/wp-content/up.../WPPL-9-22.pdf

    Homicide rate

    https://www.quandl.com/collections/s...d-murder-rates

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Absolutely correct Rev....All he is really doing is displaying his own fear of a piece of metal....Until he realizes that it is the person wielding the gun, and not the gun itself, then there will be no reason in his arguments, just platitudes, and talking points, and name calling....
    Yes yes yes and lawnmowers don't mow lawns either people do. Lawns are a darned sight harder for people to mow without one though aren't they ?

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    You don't understand what the term per capita actually means and continue to embarrass yourself by your continued ignorance of it in this discussion frankly

    If those figures are wrong then I'm sure you will have no problem correcting them then ? If you dont like that site there are plenty of others confirming them

    Prison

    http://www.idcr.org.uk/wp-content/up.../WPPL-9-22.pdf

    Homicide rate

    https://www.quandl.com/collections/s...d-murder-rates
    Well, Statistics are for liars, and con men....So, I won't get mired in in a back and forth of biased sites, with academics spewing numbers designed to bolster their own preconceived notions of what utopia would look like. They don't know, and neither do you...You think that ridding everyone else of their guns, all because you think you know better is a bunch of ****, and further is clear that thought comes from a young mind....Give yourself a little time on this earth and you may see things a bit differently...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, Statistics are for liars, and con men....So, I won't get mired in in a back and forth of biased sites,
    How did you determine they were biased then ?

    More .....

    International Comparison '.org': Crime and Incarceration Statistics per Country

    BBC NEWS | In Depth

    Odd how they all tend to show the same thing then isn't it ?
    Last edited by flogger; 05-13-15 at 11:42 AM.

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