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Thread: Shot NYPD cop dies

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    You have cultural differences that you fail to factor into this. It's superficial at best.
    Cultural differences you say ? Well I suppose we are a bit less keen on shooting people for one

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Cultural differences you say ? Well I suppose we are a bit less keen on shooting people for one


    You also don't believe in good oral hygiene. *shrug*
    If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    You also don't believe in good oral hygiene. *shrug*
    Thats a Mike Myers national stereotype and US 'in' joke. We are actually far better than you in that department

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Thats a Mike Myers national stereotype and US 'in' joke. We are actually far better than you in that department

    British Teeth Aren’t That Bad (American Teeth Are Far Worse) | FiveThirtyEight

    Really, I would not agree based on my observations around the UK. *shrug*
    If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Look up what the term 'per capita' means and get back to me US = 4.7 homicides per 100,000 UK= 1.0 homicides per 100,000



    What if you legally sell that gun on and then it gets sold on again to a criminal ? There really is no way to stop that happening



    There is no state in the US with a gun death rate anywhere near as low as that in the UK nor any state with comparable gun laws. Hawaii gets the closest but thats still ten times higher
    I know fully how stats can be manipulated. You made the claim that your homocide rate was 4.7 times lower than ours, but fail to understand that your population is 4.9 times smaller. So, while the homocide rate with a gun may be lower, overall they remain consistent so if there are no guns, that doesn't stop the killing.

    The other question about Chicago v Atlanta you failed to address, and I suggest you read Chicago's gun laws you'd be wrong there too.
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I know fully how stats can be manipulated. You made the claim that your homocide rate was 4.7 times lower than ours, but fail to understand that your population is 4.9 times smaller. So, while the homocide rate with a gun may be lower, overall they remain consistent so if there are no guns, that doesn't stop the killing.
    You are embarrassing yourself here given this has been explained for you already . You clearly do not understand that the per capita figures already take this population differential into account

    The other question about Chicago v Atlanta you failed to address, and I suggest you read Chicago's gun laws you'd be wrong there too.
    Chicago's overall homicide rate from all causes being some 18.5 times higher than the UK so whats your point here ?
    Last edited by flogger; 05-12-15 at 03:05 PM.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    You lose on average an officer per week to shooting so thats a difficult claim to substantiate given the extreme rarity of such events in other developed nations
    Millions upon millions of contacts every year and very few result in deaths. Yea its a dangerous job...but life is dangerous. Some tweaker could bust down my door right now and put a hatchet in my chest. I wouldnt blame the hatchet though, I would blame the tweaker.

    The main cause of police death isnt due to firearm wounds...its from car accidents. Should I give up my cruiser?

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    Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    You are embarrassing yourself here given this has been explained for you already . You clearly do not understand that the per capita figures already take this population differential into account



    Chicago's overall homicide rate from all causes being some 18.5 times higher than the UK so whats your point here ?
    And Vermont's is comparable to yours and they have very lax gun laws. The problem with this argument is that there is such variability in violent crime rates across the United States and such a wide variability in gun laws that any conclusion you draw based on National figures is necessarily invalid. Some of the highest violent crime rate locales also have the strictest gun laws and vice versa. You'd be well informed to look for causes elsewhere. Like looking at poverty and lack of meaningful employment for starters.
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    And Vermont's is comparable to yours and they have very lax gun laws.
    The problem with this argument is that there is such variability in violent crime rates across the United States and such a wide variability in gun laws that any conclusion you draw based on National figures is necessarily invalid. Some of the highest violent crime rate locales also have the strictest gun laws and vice versa. You'd be well informed to look for causes elsewhere. Like looking at poverty and lack of meaningful employment for starters.
    We have a wide variability in such factors too yet still get nowhere near US homicide numbers. Its always easier to make your national homicide stats look better by omitting the worst parts. That manipulative exercise could be easily be done done using UK regional stats too. If I picked out Berkshire or Buckinghamshire for example it would give an equally misleading picture of our homicide rates making them look much better than they are.
    Last edited by flogger; 05-12-15 at 08:05 PM.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    You are embarrassing yourself here given this has been explained for you already . You clearly do not understand that the per capita figures already take this population differential into account



    Chicago's overall homicide rate from all causes being some 18.5 times higher than the UK so whats your point here ?
    Your argument is disingenuous at best...you are cherry picking to come up with your lop sided figures. You want to use per capita when it suits your argument, then make broad claims when the per capita figures don't...for instance there was a popular meme some time ago comparing US and England crime stats, and the Daily telegraph stated that the numbers were over 2,000 per 100,000 violent crimes in England vs. under 500 per 100,000 in the US...Politifact looked at this and decided that the stats were an unequal comparison largely because of the way the different countries calculated their numbers, much like you attempt with your arguments. But, they looked at the numbers and compared them closer to like categories and came up with this....

    "The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a ‘violent crime’ as one of four specific offenses: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault." By contrast, "the British definition includes all ‘crimes against the person,’ including simple assaults, all robberies, and all ‘sexual offenses,’ as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and ‘forcible rapes.

    snip

    We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

    For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

    For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people."

    Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does | PolitiFact

    So, while it certainly is not 4 times the rate in England v the US that the original meme tried to put forth, it still comes out in the apples to apples comparison with England being a more violent country than the US. So, when wringing your hands over OUR gun laws, maybe you'd do best to consider your own violent crime....Clearly, your country is more violent, and less safe for the average citizen than the US.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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