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Thread: Shot NYPD cop dies

  1. #171
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Perhaps I just don't like hypocrisy that attempts to conflate freedom with the ability to kill and be killed with ever greater facility. That has nothing whatsoever to do with authoritarianism but just basic human values
    wait what? restricting people from means if self defense is freedom?


    I'm glad I don't live somewhere where I have to live in armed paranoid fear of everyone else too
    You live according to your "location" in Wokingham, England

    "according to a 2007 study by Halifax, the town was named best in Britain; average earnings of 744 a week put Wokingham residents in the top 5% earners in the country, and 84% owned their own homes, despite house prices being higher even than the south-east average. "



    I would bet most people in rich white enclaves would feel the same as you, in any country.
    If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion.

  2. #172
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Scotland Yard chief admits claims of crime figure manipulation contain some truth - Telegraph
    Ahem people in glass houses .....

    https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news...d-manipulated/

    My family is not at risk and more than yours.
    On the contrary you are at far greater risk then I

    Firearms in US homes as a risk factor for unintentional gunshot fatality
    Association between handgun purchase and mortality from firearm injury -- Grassel et al. 9 (1): 48 -- Injury Prevention
    Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study

    incorrect. given that over 90% of all gun violence in the US involves people with criminal records on people with criminal records, I am NOT "40 times more likely to be shot" than you...
    Bend the figures whichever way you want but you are hugely more likely to be shot than I am and most likely from your own gun by someone who knows you using it

    wait what? restricting people from means if self defense is freedom?
    What percentage of your 30,000 gun deaths and 100,000 non lethal shootings per annum were defensive ? I'd wager your offensive and accidental shootings outnumber your defensive ones by at least 50 to 1

    You live according to your "location" in Wokingham, England
    I would bet most people in rich white enclaves would feel the same as you, in any country
    Yes indeed Wokingham is a fine place to live ,but the first 35 years of my life I lived in Kilmarnock recently voted the worst place to live in Scotland (by all means look that up too if you want) so I'm well aware of life at both ends of the socio economic spectrum in the UK
    Last edited by flogger; 05-07-15 at 10:29 AM.

  3. #173
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    It's happened to about every liberal-run city in the US.
    That's because most conservative run cities are small Mayberry like areas that are easier to manage. As the city grows, so does the problems.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "If you don't want your tax dollars to help the poor, then stop saying you want a country based on Christian values, because you don't." Jimmy Carter

  4. #174
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Not to keen on your source, but it doesn't matter, I wasn't the one making the claims.


    On the contrary you are at far greater risk then I
    Nonsense. statistically removing the criminal element, I am in no greater danger than you.

    Furthermore, if I live in such a dangerous society and we should ban guns, perhaps after you get them out of the hands of the criminals killing each other, we can open a dialog.

    if the wolf is knocking at my door as you seem to imply, why the **** would I give up my gun?


    I broke my promise not to argue gun control on the internet, these have all been addressed and dealt with over and over again, I won't waste my time debunking or putting into perspective this hoplophobic statist propaganda.


    Bend the figures whichever way you want but you are hugely more likely to be shot than I am and most likely from your own gun by someone who knows you using it
    Being huge in the gun culture myself, from being in the military, a contractor a tactical firearms instructor, to a moderator on the largest carbine forum on the internet, why is it, I can't recall this nonsense ever happening to any of the thousands of people I am acquainted with?

    What percentage of your 30,000 gun deaths and 100,000 non lethal shootings per annum were defensive ? I'd wager your offensive and accidental shootings outnumber your defensive ones by at least 50 to 1

    *sigh*

    * Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year—or about 6,850 times a day.(1) This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.(2)

    * Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense with a firearm every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America"—a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.(3)

    * Concealed carry laws have reduced murder and crime rates in the states that have enacted them. According to a comprehensive study which reviewed crime statistics in every county in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%.(4)

    * Anti-gun journal pronounces the failure of the Brady law. One of the nation’s leading anti-gun medical publications, the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that the Brady registration law has failed to reduce murder rates. In August 2000, JAMA reported that states implementing waiting periods and background checks did "not [experience] reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates."(5)

    * Twice as many children are killed playing football in school than are murdered by guns. That’s right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, there are more deaths related to high school football than guns. In a recent three year period, twice as many football players died from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc. (45), as compared with students who were murdered by firearms (22) during that same time period.(6)

    GOA fact sheet.


    Yes indeed Wokingham is a fine place to live ,but the first 35 years of my life I lived in Kilmarnock recently voted the worst place to live in Scotland (by all means look that up too if you want) so I'm well aware of life at both ends of the socio economic spectrum in the UK
    Not sure how that changes my point. *shrug*
    If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion.

  5. #175
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Nonsense. statistically removing the criminal element, I am in no greater danger than you.
    The studies I linked prove otherwise

    Furthermore, if I live in such a dangerous society and we should ban guns, perhaps after you get them out of the hands of the criminals killing each other, we can open a dialog.
    You'll never do that whilst you make it so easy for them to aquire them. Under your insane system they can just send out their wives and girlfriends to 'legally' buy them for them

    if the wolf is knocking at my door as you seem to imply, why the **** would I give up my gun?
    Have you had a problem with such 'wolves' then ? I suspect you grossly exaggerate your fear of crime over the reality of it in attempting to defend the indefensible

    I broke my promise not to argue gun control on the internet, these have all been addressed and dealt with over and over again, I won't waste my time debunking or putting into perspective this hoplophobic statist propaganda.
    Tell that to the relatives of the young officer needlessly killed in the OP

    Being huge in the gun culture myself, from being in the military, a contractor a tactical firearms instructor, to a moderator on the largest carbine forum on the internet, why is it, I can't recall this nonsense ever happening to any of the thousands of people I am acquainted with?
    I'm an ex Falklands war veteran myself with two tours in N Ireland too. Your national statistics speak for themselves

    * Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year—or about 6,850 times a day.(1) This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.(2)

    * Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense with a firearm every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America"—a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.(3)

    * Concealed carry laws have reduced murder and crime rates in the states that have enacted them. According to a comprehensive study which reviewed crime statistics in every county in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%.(4)
    Even the gun crime stats for the best state in the US are far worse than those of any other developed country

    * Anti-gun journal pronounces the failure of the Brady law. One of the nation’s leading anti-gun medical publications, the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that the Brady registration law has failed to reduce murder rates. In August 2000, JAMA reported that states implementing waiting periods and background checks did "not [experience] reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates."(5)

    * Twice as many children are killed playing football in school than are murdered by guns. That’s right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, there are more deaths related to high school football than guns. In a recent three year period, twice as many football players died from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc. (45), as compared with students who were murdered by firearms (22) during that same time period.(6)
    Lets look at some facts instead

    Gun deaths in children: Statistics show firearms endanger kids despite NRA safety programs.

    Not sure how that changes my point. *shrug*
    You were trying to smear me as some rich white guy from an affluent part of England that didn't know any better. I explained that I wasn't

  6. #176
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Nonsense. statistically removing the criminal element, I am in no greater danger than you.
    The studies I linked prove otherwise

    Furthermore, if I live in such a dangerous society and we should ban guns, perhaps after you get them out of the hands of the criminals killing each other, we can open a dialog.
    You'll never do that whilst you make it so easy for them to aquire them. Under your insane system they can just send out their wives and girlfriends to 'legally' buy them for them

    if the wolf is knocking at my door as you seem to imply, why the **** would I give up my gun?
    Have you had a problem with such 'wolves' then ? I suspect you grossly exaggerate your fear of crime over the reality of it in attempting to defend the indefensible

    I broke my promise not to argue gun control on the internet, these have all been addressed and dealt with over and over again, I won't waste my time debunking or putting into perspective this hoplophobic statist propaganda.
    Tell that to the relatives of the young officer needlessly killed in the OP

    Being huge in the gun culture myself, from being in the military, a contractor a tactical firearms instructor, to a moderator on the largest carbine forum on the internet, why is it, I can't recall this nonsense ever happening to any of the thousands of people I am acquainted with?
    I'm a Falklands war veteran myself with two tours in N Ireland too. Your national statistics speak for themselves

    * Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year—or about 6,850 times a day.(1) This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.(2)

    * Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense with a firearm every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America"—a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.(3)

    * Concealed carry laws have reduced murder and crime rates in the states that have enacted them. According to a comprehensive study which reviewed crime statistics in every county in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%.(4)
    Even the gun crime stats for the best state in the US are far worse than those of any other developed country

    * Anti-gun journal pronounces the failure of the Brady law. One of the nation’s leading anti-gun medical publications, the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that the Brady registration law has failed to reduce murder rates. In August 2000, JAMA reported that states implementing waiting periods and background checks did "not [experience] reductions in homicide rates or overall suicide rates."(5)

    * Twice as many children are killed playing football in school than are murdered by guns. That’s right. Despite what media coverage might seem to indicate, there are more deaths related to high school football than guns. In a recent three year period, twice as many football players died from hits to the head, heat stroke, etc. (45), as compared with students who were murdered by firearms (22) during that same time period.(6)
    Lets look at some facts instead

    Gun deaths in children: Statistics show firearms endanger kids despite NRA safety programs.

    Not sure how that changes my point. *shrug*
    You were trying to smear me as some rich white guy from an affluent part of England that didn't know any better. I explained that I wasn't
    Last edited by flogger; 05-07-15 at 11:56 AM.

  7. #177
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Have you had a problem with such 'wolves' then ? I suspect you grossly exaggerate your fear of crime over the reality of it in attempting to defend the indefensible


    I have no fear of crime, everything I posted so far would lead the rational to conclude as such. I have guns, because I ****ing want them, and as a free man, it is my natural right if I so choose.

    Tell that to the relatives of the young officer needlessly killed in the OP

    I'll leave the emotional anecdotal alone, thank you.


    I'm an ex Falklands war veteran myself with two tours in N Ireland too. Your national statistics speak for themselves
    Wonderful for you. Doesn't change anything I said.


    Even the gun crime stats for the best state in the US are far worse than those of any other developed country

    your ignorance is astounding.

    Criminals target each other, trend shows - USATODAY.com

    What do I really care what criminals are doing killing other criminals?


    furthermore with the advent of the 3d printer, how do you propose keeping guns out of peoples hands? (well except for cops and the government of course who have never killed people!) /facepalm

    Lets look at some facts instead
    slate? i've posted contradictory facts backed up by federal data.

    You were trying to smear me as some rich white guy from an affluent part of England that didn't know any better. I explained that I wasn't

    Not even sure how your socio economic status in the UK makes you a gun control expert in the United states. *shrug*


    I was simply pointing out you live in a rich english area, far far away from the United states and you don't want to see the truth behind the statistics because you are anti-gun... well no, you are pro-gun in government hands, but not the peoples. We fought and won a war over, partially that, so there's that....
    If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion.

  8. #178
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I have no fear of crime, everything I posted so far would lead the rational to conclude as such. I have guns, because I ****ing want them, and as a free man, it is my natural right if I so choose.
    Freedom is not defined by having the greatly increased facility to kill or be killed . Thats more like the promotion of fear and paranoia

    furthermore with the advent of the 3d printer, how do you propose keeping guns out of peoples hands? (well except for cops and the government of course who have never killed people!) /facepalm
    Agreed firearms nuts will always try and find new ways to circumvent regulation. We haven't seen such firearms here yet but thats not to say that we might yet

    slate? i've posted contradictory facts backed up by federal data.
    And all the info in my link was sublinked to its source material

    Not even sure how your socio economic status in the UK makes you a gun control expert in the United states. *shrug*
    You brought it up I didn't

    I was simply pointing out you live in a rich english area, far far away from the United states and you don't want to see the truth behind the statistics because you are anti-gun... well no, you are pro-gun in government hands, but not the peoples. We fought and won a war over, partially that, so there's that...
    I guess I'm just against the promotion of needless death masquerading as something it isn't . I'm funny about that
    Last edited by flogger; 05-07-15 at 12:21 PM.

  9. #179
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Freedom is not defined by having the greatly increased facility to kill or be killed more easily. Thats more like the definition of fear

    your fear is your problem, not mine.


    Agreed firearms nuts will always try and find new ways to circumvent regulation. We haven't seen such firearms here yet but thats not to say that we might yet
    hoplophobes will always try to blame criminal activity on legal gun owners.

    I guess I'm just against the promotion of needless death. I'm funny about that
    Then where is your call for a ban on cars doing more than 25mph?

    or buckets of water?

    Football?

    Ladders? Stairs?

    swimming pools?

    beer?

    tobacco?



    Why no consistency?
    If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion.

  10. #180
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    I must apologize, this isn't the tread to hammer back at someone with an anti-gun agenda. I won't be responding to you on this in this thread again. my bad,
    If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion.

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