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Thread: Shot NYPD cop dies

  1. #131
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Also you take out those with criminal records and we are as low as any other nation. (most homicides involve criminals on criminals.)
    Yes I suppose if you remove the major symptoms of your gun culture the figures can be bent to look better. The thing is we have criminals too and because of our culture they are a good deal less lethal

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    The fact that more than three quarters of the output of Hollywood or your TV dramas involve gunplay in one form or another coupled with easy access to many of the guns often featured must certainly have a major psychological effect for many though. The glorification of gun violence as entertainment cannot be right and by dint of its saturation must ultimately take its toll in the real world
    Well, I was raised watching many of those violent movies, played violent video games, and outside of a single fight in high school have never so much as laid a hand on another person. One reason for that is because I can separate reality from fiction. I dont know of any (real, not from a magazine) study to suggest that watching violent programming leads to more violence, if you have a link I'd love to see it.

    But like I said, the higher rates of violence existed before television/movies/internet and continue to today, so its unlikely to be causative.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Thats been studied as well-in many countries, most gun deaths are actually suicides, and when countries around the world banned guns, it was found that other methods were instead used.
    Suicide attempts are far more likely to be successful using a gun. Suicide is also three times more likely to be attempted if a gun is in the home

    Gun access tied to greater suicide, murder risk: study | Reuters

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Suicide attempts are far more likely to be successful using a gun. Suicide is also three times more likely to be attempted if a gun is in the home

    Gun access tied to greater suicide, murder risk: study | Reuters
    And yet suicide is already illegal in most places. Its almost like people who intend to kill themselves might select a definitive technique. Tragic but thats the world.

    And it still does not address my point above-that when guns were banned (with suicide being a prompting factor) overall suicide rates did not drop-they just found other means.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Well, I was raised watching many of those violent movies, played violent video games, and outside of a single fight in high school have never so much as laid a hand on another person.
    Good for you

    One reason for that is because I can separate reality from fiction.
    What about those who can't or more worryingly won't ? You have certainly had plenty of those

    I dont know of any (real, not from a magazine) study to suggest that watching violent programming leads to more violence, if you have a link I'd love to see it.
    There you go

    Early Exposure to TV Violence Predicts Aggression in Adulthood

    Violence in the Media

    But like I said, the higher rates of violence existed before television/movies/internet and continue to today, so its unlikely to be causative.
    For most it won't be but for some it will. Add easy access to firearms into the mix after that and you have a society where homicide becomes 5 or 6 times more likely than in other developed countries

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    And yet suicide is already illegal in most places. Its almost like people who intend to kill themselves might select a definitive technique. Tragic but thats the world.
    I'm sure people aren't worried about the legality of what they are doing when they choose to commit suicide

    And it still does not address my point above-that when guns were banned (with suicide being a prompting factor) overall suicide rates did not drop-they just found other means.
    The study I linked disagrees. Here is another

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-ma...s-matter/risk/
    Last edited by flogger; 05-06-15 at 01:47 PM.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Good for you



    What about those who can't or more worryingly won't ? You have certainly had plenty of those


    There you go

    Early Exposure to TV Violence Predicts Aggression in Adulthood

    Violence in the Media



    For most it won't be but for some it will. Add easy access to firearms into the mix after that and you have a society where homicide becomes 5 or 6 times more likely than in other developed countries
    The study you cited showed a slight correlation. Heres another... JAMA Network | JAMA Pediatrics | Short-term and Long-term Effects of Violent Media on Aggression in Children and Adults

    However, thats a pretty weak relationship by medical research standards, because even if it exists (lets say it does), its still not the magic bullet to pin the blame on. And like I said, higher rates were around before tv/movies-in the UK guns were prevalent at one time and yet the violence rate was still lower. So what other factors do you suggest?

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Yes I suppose if you remove the major symptoms of your gun culture the figures can be bent to look better. The thing is we have criminals too and because of our culture they are a good deal less lethal

    I had a feeling this was the angle you were shooting for. Instead of blaming people you blame an object.


    also IIRC wasn't the collection of crime statistics in the UK severely inadequate at best?


    I won't begin to tell you how your island nation should handle it's subjects and guns, but here in the US, I'll keep my guns, thank you.

    Not a criminal so, statistically, I have about as much a chance as you getting shot these days. *shrug*


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    I'm sure people aren't worried about the legality of what they are doing when they choose to commit suicide



    The study I linked disagrees. Here is another

    Firearm Access is a Risk Factor for Suicide | Means Matter | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health
    I agree, just like violent criminals who by definition dont follow the law or respect rights dont follow gun laws.

  10. #140
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    Re: Shot NYPD cop dies

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The study you cited showed a slight correlation. Heres another... JAMA Network | JAMA Pediatrics | Short-term and Long-term Effects of Violent Media on Aggression in Children and Adults

    However, thats a pretty weak relationship by medical research standards, because even if it exists (lets say it does), its still not the magic bullet to pin the blame on. And like I said, higher rates were around before tv/movies-in the UK guns were prevalent at one time and yet the violence rate was still lower. So what other factors do you suggest?
    Citing your own study

    Although observing violence may increase aggression in the short term for adults and children, long-term effects are most likely to occur for children. Consequently, children need the most protection from repeated exposures to violence. Infrequent exposure is not likely to produce lasting consequences, but parents particularly need to be urged to protect their children against the kinds of repeated exposures that heavy play with violent video games or immersion in violent TV programs is likely to produce.

    That doesn't sound like 'very weak' corellation to me

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