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Thread: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit [W:439, 529, 978, 1489]

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    Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    "When people prefer to focus on the motives of the victims rather than on the motives of the attackers, they will ignore the single most important matter: that an art exhibition, or free speech, has been targeted".
    The Islamic extremists don't care about free speech. They care about their prophet being openly ridiculed. If Geller or anybody else feels the urge to do so, they have a first amendment right on their side. In the meantime, hopefully gratuitously drawing cartoons of Mohamed is worth the risk of having ones head chopped off. I say she should continue staging her silly faux free speech demonstrations and accept the consequences.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I don't want Geller or anybody else to be censored, ever. But we all self censor regularly. And even if I think something to be cute or funny, if I think that I might be offending somebody with it, I may abstain. Surely you've done the same. If those people whom my cute and funny may provoke a group inclined to want to chop my head off for it, I may have added incentive to abstain. But feel free to support the completely gratuitous provocation to Islamic extremists and accept the continuos attacks by them. At least you guys can stand on your free speech.
    Yes, self-censoring ourselves against the possibility of an angry Muslim response makes so much sense. Their acts of intimidation and violence is best met with silence, lest someone gets hurt.

    Do you have a Plan B?

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    Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The Islamic extremists don't care about free speech. They care about their prophet being openly ridiculed. If Geller or anybody else feels the urge to do so, they have a first amendment right on their side. In the meantime, hopefully gratuitously drawing cartoons of Mohamed is worth the risk of having ones head chopped off. I say she should continue staging her silly faux free speech demonstrations and accept the consequences.
    I do as well, and hope there are many advocates of free speech who support her.

    That anyone needs armed guards in America today to exercise their freedom of speech is apparently going unnoticed, that this is a natural consequence of criticizing Islam. And not being critical of Islam, but the critic, seems to have gained a great deal of support.

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    Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    I have to admit that I'm mystified by the now-you've-gone-and-made-them-mad reaction by far too many normally somewhat thoughtful people about this whole Mohammed cartoon thing.
    Some have actually tried to say it's not Constitutionally protected speech.
    Others have danced around the fact that it is protected speech but it's offensive so it shouldn't be allowed.

    What the hell is happening here?
    We should be working overtime to demonstrate that we DON'T fold to intimidation.
    Instead we show a timidity that extends to foreign dealings that are more serious than cartoons.
    Better never than late.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, self-censoring ourselves against the possibility of an angry Muslim response makes so much sense. Their acts of intimidation and violence is best met with silence, lest someone gets hurt.

    Do you have a Plan B?
    So your position is that not gratuitously offending another via self censorship is the same as cowering in silence. Fine Grant, beat your chest in triumphal free speech and accept the consequences for your senseless and needless Offense.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Wow.. such a compelling rebuttal.

    Since 2001, jihadists have killed 13 people on US soil. Right wing extremists have killed 34. Exactly zero jihadists aquired or used chemical or biological weapons compared to 13 right wing terrorists, one left wing terrorist, and two with idiosyncratic beliefs.

    Frazier Glenn Cross killed three people at two Jewish centers in 2014. He founded the Carolina Knights of the KKK and the White Patriot Party.
    Wade Michael Page killed six people at a Sikh temple in 2012, twice the death toll of the Boston Marathon bombings. He was in a white supremacist band.
    Shawna Forde, Albert Gaxiola, and Jason Bush raided a home in Arizona in 2009, killing two in an effort to fund their anti-immigration vigilante group, Minutemen American Defense.
    In 2009 Scot Roeder murdered Dr. George Tiller. Scott Roeder also had ties to the Sovereign Citizens.


    And many many more...
    I'm not saying that jihadists aren't a threat, but in order of danger it goes something like this : Right Wing Terrorists > Unaffiliated Terrorists > Left Wing Terrorists > Islamic Terrorists.
    You ignored the killings of 2,977 people on September 11, 2001 and the attempted killings of many more.

    The rest are nut cases and neither left, right or middle.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    So your position is that not gratuitously offending another via self censorship is the same as cowering in silence. Fine Grant, beat your chest in triumphal free speech and accept the consequences for your senseless and needless Offense.
    I never used the word 'cower' but if you feel that it suits those who would prefer silence to 'offensive' free speech then it may be appropriate.

    Are you prepared to silence any 'provocation' of Christians and Jews as well?

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Moderator's Warning:
    Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit [W:439, 529, 978, 1489]Folks, the thread is getting heated again. People need to tamp down the flaming and baiting one-liners and stick to discussing the topic
    Imagine if Walmart owned access to all the streets in your town. You can go to Target or the mom and pop downtown if you want, but all the roads leading there require a toll, whereas the roads leading to Walmart are free. That is not the avenue the internet needs to go down.

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    Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I do as well, and hope there are many advocates of free speech who support her.

    That anyone needs armed guards in America today to exercise their freedom of speech is apparently going unnoticed, that this is a natural consequence of criticizing Islam. And not being critical of Islam, but the critic, seems to have gained a great deal of support.
    There are advocates of free speech that don't support her. I will also point out that as an atheist I may be debating a Christian and make a comment in the course of it that the Christian may find offensive. But my sensibilities consider that quite different from gratuitously drawing ridiculing cartoons of Jesus. I considered the "art" piece, the crucifix in piss (I believe it was) to be a fair expression of the "artists" free speech. But I also considered it gratuitously offensive, of no value, mean spirited and something I would never go and look at. It's also something that I would never produce myself.

    This straw man argument that somebody wants to censor somebodies free speech is a facade for bigots, and nasty and hateful people who have nothing better to do than spew their hatred. And knuckle dragging mouth breathers lined up in Gellers studio to draw their cute little cartoons. Bet non of them will participate in such a childish game again though.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I never used the word 'cower' but if you feel that it suits those who would prefer silence to 'offensive' free speech then it may be appropriate.

    Are you prepared to silence any 'provocation' of Christians and Jews as well?
    What's wrong with you. I've repeated often enough my opposition to public/government censorship of anybody's 1st amendment right. So stop asserting such foolishness. I've suggested that reasonable people censor themselves regularly, not wishing to gratuitously offend the sensibilities of others. That's what separates ladies and gentlemen from bigots and haters. The only benefit one gets from drawing ridiculing cartoons of Mohamed is the satisfaction of antagonising a hated group. Again, knock yourselves out and accept the consequences.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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