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Thread: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit [W:439, 529, 978, 1489]

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    We're all Americans & all for free speech, but this is striking me more as antagonism, baiting, and hate - rather than a legitimate free-speech issue.

    What the hay is the point in getting in the mud with Muslim extremists?

    Even when you win, you've still lost.
    MIght as well lure them into the open where they can be dealt with as in this case rather than waiting for them to pull another 9-11?
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    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
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    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The first amendment is a protection from the government, not private entities. The terrorist scum who attacked the gathering may be guilty of a lot, but they weren't guilty of violating her constitutional rights.
    She still silenced her, thats the issue. Nobody said the govt did this.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Why would I agree with a muslim cleric?
    You don't have to agree with him. I'm only saying that the analogy used earlier is legitimate because there are cases of that view, by Muslims, being expressed.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    This is perhaps the most bizarre logic I've ever seen.

    Ms Geller had a gathering devoted to drawing the prophet Muhammed because it's highly offensive to Muslims and has provoked violent reactions in other countries. You in turn make the claim that saying she is at least partially culpable for the shooting which happened is analogous to a women wearing a skirt asking to be raped. But not because they're factually related. They're analogous because a muslim cleric said that women who don't wear modest clothes are asking to be raped and (assumingly) muslims attacked Ms Geller's gathering.

    That's not how analogies work. The Tortoise and the Hare and the Fox and the Hare aren't analogous because they both contain a hare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    wearing short skirts has been argued to be a justification of rape...the analogy fits this scenario pretty well.

    drawing Mohammed may incite anger in the same way a short skirt incites sexual thoughts.... neither justify an unlawful response, though... in both cases, the victim is 100% innocent of wrongdoing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    This is childish reasoning.

    Someone wearing a short skirt isn't wearing the short skirt to taunt a rapist. They're wearing it she wants to wear it. They aren't comparable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Are you seriously arguing that women dress nice to taunt rapists?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Geez, man!! It was a Muslim cleric saying that if women don't dress properly they deserve to be raped. If you don't take the time to look at the link you shouldn't bother responding to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Why would I agree with a muslim cleric?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You don't have to agree with him. I'm only saying that the analogy used earlier is legitimate because there are cases of that view, by Muslims, being expressed.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    This is perhaps the most bizarre logic I've ever seen.

    Ms Geller had a gathering devoted to drawing the prophet Muhammed because it's highly offensive to Muslims and has provoked violent reactions in other countries. You in turn make the claim that saying she is at least partially culpable for the shooting which happened is analogous to a women wearing a skirt asking to be raped. But not because they're factually related. They're analogous because a muslim cleric said that women who don't wear modest clothes are asking to be raped and (assumingly) muslims attacked Ms Geller's gathering.
    There is a large possibility that you don't understand the 'blame the victim' comparison.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The Mormons have demonstrated how a truly sophisticated and intelligent people should respond to criticism or farce, one far removed from many of the barbarians attached to Islam. Perhaps this approach will rub off on some of the more 'moderate' Muslims.
    Rather than putting the boot into Islam or Muhammed or anything else negative, how about looking at the situation from a compassionate point of view?

    Until these extremists got some guns and decided to try to kill people, they were worth something to somebody. As far as I know they were American citizens, welcome in America like anyone else. But they were also heading down a sad and lonely road of anger and grievance, caused by whatever material they were feeding themselves with - perhaps hate preacher stuff. Behind that may have been a story of identity problems, family problems, religious indoctrination and desperation to belong and be valued. Their Muslim faith and cultural background will have given them especially big problems in in terms of integrating happily into any Western society (was one a convert? If so, comparable problems).

    I wouldn't know how to reach such people but if they are to continue to be welcome in the USA, then hopefully some good people - Muslims and non - should try and be supported in such a difficult task. In England, the problems are similar but Muslim ghettoes are widespread, numbers larger and the social cohesion of the white English population seems to be weaker than in Texas. I'm learning about the issues in my city from chatting with a client of mine of Somali origin, who lives in a ghetto. The future looks bad for us on this issue, in my opinion. But in the USA, the scale of the problem seems to be more containable, at least at the moment. Perhaps Americans will baulk at making a special case for Muslims but really they are a special case, and not many people could have imagined it.

    Now I see that Muslims in Texas are fearful of a backlash and many Texan politicians are making gestures to show their disapproval of Islam. There are 200,000 Muslims in Texas alone so potential for many more problems in the future. Texas Muslims fear for safety after Iraqi man shot dead in Dallas attack | US news | The Guardian

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Geller is an antagonist, provocateur and trouble maker. She isn't pressing any free speech issue. Hope she got what she was looking for this time.
    We've got a comparable rent-a-gob in England at the moment - Katie Hopkins. She makes inflammatory comments on radio and in the press about immigrants, most recently about the Africans crossing the Mediterranean, just to get publicity. Geller sounds a bit more intelligent and ideological which probably makes her more dangerous. The fact that she is now ramping up the tension by planning another stunt shows that she knows how to press buttons and work the audience. The best thing we can do is ignore her but I doubt that will happen.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Meet the new left. Isis isn't the problem, conservatives are. And the TEA party is worse than Hamas. See how this works?
    I had my head handed to me by a so-called "liberal" for suggesting way back in 2009 that Obama's "enemies" were not the same as America's enemies. Since then he and his stupid voter followers have been proving me right.

    Benghazi was a terrorist attack on US soil, and NOTHING was done about it. But, we have to see the government 'shut down' a few times to be reminded that the reeal "enemies" are Americans, members of congress in fact.

    Terrorists walk free, but Republicans must be demonized. You would think aliens had come
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There is a large possibility that you don't understand the 'blame the victim' comparison.
    Wow, that's really sad.

    They're not analogous, nor do they become so because there are bigoted Muslim clerics. Women don't dress up for the sole purpose of taunting potential rapists. Their choice of clothing doesn’t' change depending on if they'll be seen by potential rapists. Ms Geller on the other hand WAS taunting Muslims. The sole purpose to holding and publicising the event was to make sure that Muslims KNEW she was offending them. Texas is 0.7% muslim, you have to try pretty hard to make sure they notice.

    Please don't try to conflate the intentional and hateful actions of Ms Geller with how a rape victim chooses to dress. And what is it with you hard core conservatives and rape?????

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Digging through the last several pages of the thread, it seems that several conservatives seem to believe that defending Geller's right to free speech entails condoning or refraining from criticizing her hateful rhetoric. Somehow, in this alternate universe, pointing out that she's a hateful bigot (even while pointing out she has the right to be) means liberals are "against free speech."
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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