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Thread: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit [W:439, 529, 978, 1489]

  1. #721
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You should be the first in line to defend speech you disagree with, but its crickets.

    Its telling, really. I support her fully in her struggle against radical islam and those who would silence free speech.
    When you support speech you agree with you're not supporting free speech. You're simply supporting an idea you agree with. Though I’m confused as to why you would willingly give your full support to a hate filled bigot.

    Understand, No one is saying that the government should step in and prevent her from holding these events. No one. That's what it means to have free speech. It means that the government will not forcibly prevent you from speaking.

    But this does not mean that anyone else has to respect her, it does not mean that anyone else has to condone her hatred, and it does not mean that the rest of us are barred from saying that she's culpable.

  2. #722
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    I don't see this as a constitutional free speech issue.

    First of all, there's no government involved.

    Secondly, this appears to be a private issue between a religious hate group and another seemingly religious group (who seems pretty intent on hating right back at them).

    But no, I don't see any 1st amendment bill-of-rights violations taking place here.
    nobody has said it's a 1st amendment case or a constitutional issue...... the 1st amendment is a limit on government alone, nothing more.

    however, it very much is a free speech issue.... and an illegitmate ,unjust, and illegal reaction to that speech.

  3. #723
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    When you support speech you agree with you're not supporting free speech. You're simply supporting an idea you agree with. Though I’m confused as to why you would willingly give your full support to a hate filled bigot.

    Understand, No one is saying that the government should step in and prevent her from holding these events. No one. That's what it means to have free speech. It means that the government will not forcibly prevent you from speaking.

    But this does not mean that anyone else has to respect her, it does not mean that anyone else has to condone her hatred, and it does not mean that the rest of us are barred from saying that she's culpable.
    I dont mean you have to respect her-thats not the point at all-my point was you have to defend her. Or are you going to allow a bunch of medieval hayseeds with guns decide that for you?

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I defend the speech of those I disagree with all the time. Ive even contributed money.
    She's the one speaking, she's the one put in harms way-id say its her thats defending free speech.
    It sounds like you aren't a fan of what Geller says-and since you want to defend free speech (that you disagree with) you are no doubt leading the charge to defend her, no?
    Insulting someone else for the sole purpose of provoking a retaliation that you can demonize isn't defending free speech. It's being human garbage while hiding behind the flag.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Insulting someone else for the sole purpose of provoking a retaliation that you can demonize isn't defending free speech. It's being human garbage while hiding behind the flag.
    Have you heard her speak before? She's anti-islamist. Anti terrorist. Pro womens rights. This was a demonstration of freedom of speech, which she's absolutely able to do as a free citizen. Even if you dont like it-if you are a defender of the 1st you have to defend that at least.

  6. #726
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I dont mean you have to respect her-thats not the point at all-my point was you have to defend her. Or are you going to allow a bunch of medieval hayseeds with guns decide that for you?
    I have to defend her? Nope.

    Now I oppose the government stepping in and preventing her from being a hateful bigot, just as I'd defend the rights of the KKK to hold a rally. But I'll not personally defend her actions as justified or morally acceptable. I'll not pretend that she's blameless in the shootings. The people who attacked the gathering are certainly guilty, and no amount of hate is justification for their actions. But failing to blame her for inciting the situation is no better than making excuses for the terrorists.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Understand, No one is saying that the government should step in and prevent her from holding these events. No one. That's what it means to have free speech. It means that the government will not forcibly prevent you from speaking.
    Exactly.

    No one has stifled Ms. Geller's speech.

    She's carrying on a private war with Islamic extremists.

    (and why anyone would want to go to that level, is beyond me)
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Have you heard her speak before? She's anti-islamist. Anti terrorist. Pro womens rights. This was a demonstration of freedom of speech, which she's absolutely able to do as a free citizen. Even if you dont like it-if you are a defender of the 1st you have to defend that at least.
    What message were they trying to communicate by having an entire conference dedicated to drawing the prophet Mohamed?

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Geller is an antagonist, provocateur and trouble maker. She isn't pressing any free speech issue. Hope she got what she was looking for this time.
    It sounds like everybody got what they wanted. Cartoons were drawn, somebody won the contest, and to Muslims died for their cause. Sounds like a happy ending in Texas.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Sorry, it doesn't end there. Your actions don't magically become morally justified because someone else’s aren't.

    Ask yourself this. Would there have been a gathering to draw the prophet if it wasn't highly offensive to Muslims? Obviously not. This isn't someone expressing an opinion. This is someone deliberately antagonizing someone else. Yes, those that retaliate are 100% wrong, but so are worthless people who attended and organized it.
    sounds to me like you are judging the retaliators on a basis of legality and the insitigators on a basis of morality....

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