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Thread: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit [W:439, 529, 978, 1489]

  1. #461
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    That's an unfortunate and irrelevant Ad Hom reply.

    We try to set the standards here a little higher than that and applaud thought out responses in context to the subject matter presented in the OP.
    F&L's response was hardly "thought out," since it contained at least two blatant falsehoods.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Considering that this so called voicing of an opinion was designed to create a reaction somewhere... then this is no different than the actual act committed. It is like shouting fire in a crowded theatre and people getting trampled to death.. you are still responsible for the trampling even though you have your "free speech" to shout fire.
    Yeah, this is basically wrong on every conceivable level.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    No, that is not true at all. Shouting "fire" in a movie theater is a hazard to the public because it creates panic. Drawing a picture of a mythical character is not a public hazard. It's just offensive to ONE religious cult.
    One religious cult who will commit horrible acts to avenge such an offence... hence it is a freaking given that if you do that offence then there is a damn good chance that someone will get hurt.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    But our middle east interventions don't explain why Native born Muslims are becoming more fanatic. It wasn't a war on Islam it was a war on terror, a war which is still going on and is also being fought by other Islamic countries.
    It's a big reason though. Even if Muslims are killing each other in the Middle East, once we in the West get involved, the loyalties of Muslims living in the West shift more towards their fellow Muslims in the Middle East. Ghettoisation and online radicalisation are ever greater problems too.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    One religious cult who will commit horrible acts to avenge such an offence... hence it is a freaking given that if you do that offence then there is a damn good chance that someone will get hurt.
    And whose fault is that?

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I doubt we hear anything from Obama, as recognition of their demented cause would just embolden the radicals to do more crazy stuff in the future.

    I can't get behind this "blame the victim" mentality you're espousing. Do we blame a raped woman for being out alone at night or dressing provocatively? Of course not. So why should we blame the victims in this case?

    It's the perpetrators who were 100 percent at fault in this case. Deadly force is a vast overreaction to something as silly as a cartoon, and the criminals were rightly shot dead in order to protect the innocent.

    Giving their cause any sense of legitimacy would, in my opinion, be a mistake.

    If Muslims wanted to peacefully protest the cartoon event by picketing, raising public awareness, or arranging a boycott of some sort, you would have a point. However, when you storm the meeting with guns drawn, you and your cause lose legitimacy in the eyes of the public, and your likelihood of obtaining any conciliation decreases.
    It's not a question of blame one party and not the other, or even apportioning blame on a % basis. If something goes wrong between people, you have to look at the behaviour of both sides to learn lessons. Do you think that there are any lessons which this defence group can learn from this incident, if they are willing to examine their motives and actions?

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    Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The fact that you feel a group of people getting together to draw pictures of a religious figure is similar to sticking a metal object into a toaster in terms of risk, potential for harm, and danger to me speaks FAR MORE about those reacting to the event then it tells me about the people doing it.

    I'd think the fact that there's seemingly a large enough contingent of a particular religion that is so extremist in nature that drawing a religious figure is equivelent in danger to jabbing metal into electrical objects is mindbogglingly problematic.
    It's not just problematic; it's disturbing.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    One religious cult who will commit horrible acts to avenge such an offence... hence it is a freaking given that if you do that offence then there is a damn good chance that someone will get hurt.
    So, all one has to do in the PeteEU world to stifle free speech is threaten violence and we should all hold our tongue....Great...Terror score.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    America has hundreds of years of experience when it comes to mass immigration. Our country is primarily made up of immigrants with all different backgrounds and stories.

    The way it has worked best in the past, and the way it will work this time, is that the immigrants are the ones who need to conform to our values and beliefs, not the other way around. You're welcome to come to the land of opportunity and you're free to pursue the best life for yourself, but don't expect anyone else to learn about your culture or capitulate to you. You're in Anerica, start acting like an American.

    This formula has worked for generations, no reason to deviate from it now.

    Freedom of speech is not something we're going to willingly give up, especially to assuage a group of radicals who generally are distrusted to begin with.

    They're gonna have to learn to hack it just like every other generation of immigrants before them. And in the Wild West, if you come on with your guns drawn, the lawmen might just shoot you down. Lesson learned and score 1 for the good guys.
    Do you have any idea just how many generations it took for some immigrants to be assimilated into what you know as "American culture"?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    It's not a question of blame one party and not the other, or even apportioning blame on a % basis. If something goes wrong between people, you have to look at the behaviour of both sides to learn lessons. Do you think that there are any lessons which this defence group can learn from this incident, if they are willing to examine their motives and actions?
    Yes, hold their events in Texas...It ain't Paris....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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