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Thread: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit [W:439, 529, 978, 1489]

  1. #431
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Pretty sure you shouldn't be harmed walking through Compton shouting the N word either.
    sounds right

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    Re: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    I just think it's a shame people have to stoop that low to get their opinion heard, I also think its a shame for the Police officers and all other local security forces that are put in danger due to events like these.
    I agree generally that the event was distasteful, just as the piss Christ art exhibit is distasteful, but I can't get behind the "blame the victim" mentality that somehow excuses the vast overreaction of deadly violence as a response to a cartoon.

    All US residents should be held to the expectation that they can and will behave rationally. If we cannot expect the Muslim community to do so, what sense then does it make to allow people you don't believe are capable of normal, rational behavior to live and work in your country?

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    It's more like blaming the rape victim because she wore a short skirt.
    pretty much

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Pretty sure I should be free from getting mugged or shot because I have $100 in my pocket, too. What's your point?
    your right

    the point is people should not commit crimes against you because they want to

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Nope he's just talking about the morons on this site.
    Yep, the people that save their criticisms for the victims of Militant Islamist and hide when the same Islamist stone Homosexuals and Women.

    These people in Texas had it coming because they were " provocative ". I guess being Gay or a Women in SaudI Arabia is provocative also.
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    When you capitulate, or become cowed as a society because you fear irrational Muslims overreacting to something as harmless as a cartoon with deadly violence...you've lost not only your balls but your soul as well.

    You can't let a bunch of immigrants come in and push you around. This is Texas, we have freedom of speech and hold it very dear here. Outsiders are welcome, but if you're so offended by someone else's speech that you think violent outrage is the correct response, you need to get your ass out of my state and back to whatever sand dune you came from.

    We're not moving one inch, or giving up one iota of our freedom for these pretenders.
    You've got a very different situation on your hands which needs a lot of careful handling. For good or for bad, America has welcomed Muslims as citizens of their country. We have done the same in the UK. Muslims come from very different cultural backgrounds to ours. In many of their countries of origin, it is more likely that they deal with actions which dishonour them and their brethren with violence - anything less is considered weakness.

    We have the right to expect some sort of openness to Western culture from Muslims who settle here, such openness does not always exist. If it's not there, then integration will never happen and it's best for all concerned if they are helped to go to a country they like. However, if there is some openness to integration, it will be fragile and the actual process of integration will be painful, slow and not necessarily successful. Many Muslims have a backstory of bitterness towards Western nations such as the UK and the US who have killed so many of their fellow Muslims over the years. As we know, their religion is also fervent. Integration of large numbers of Muslims into Western countries is probably one of the most ambitious programmes ever attempted in social history, and to be honest, it's not going very well, probably because we had no idea what we were getting involved in.

    So, having taken the decision to welcome people into our nations as fellow citizens, who have such incredibly different values to ours, we have some onus to show them respect for their personal beliefs (like we do for different Christian groups). We owe this to ourselves and to them if we want to make our society work. If we say, these are our values - shape up or ship out, and by the way we support people who ridicule your values, it's just not going to work. Given that we are willing to make an effort to respect difference in so many areas of our lives, is it really so hard for our societies to agree not to ridicule the dearest tenets of their religion? Is that such a big sacrifice? Do we have to stand on principle and say it's my right to mock your religion - this is what America / UK etc is about? Can we not take issue with Islam and its problems in a civilised way?

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    You've got a very different situation on your hands which needs a lot of careful handling. For good or for bad, America has welcomed Muslims as citizens of their country. We have done the same in the UK. Muslims come from very different cultural backgrounds to ours. In many of their countries of origin, it is more likely that they deal with actions which dishonour them and their brethren with violence - anything less is considered weakness.

    We have the right to expect some sort of openness to Western culture from Muslims who settle here, such openness does not always exist. If it's not there, then integration will never happen and it's best for all concerned if they are helped to go to a country they like. However, if there is some openness to integration, it will be fragile and the actual process of integration will be painful, slow and not necessarily successful. Many Muslims have a backstory of bitterness towards Western nations such as the UK and the US who have killed so many of their fellow Muslims over the years. As we know, their religion is also fervent. Integration of large numbers of Muslims into Western countries is probably one of the most ambitious programmes ever attempted in social history, and to be honest, it's not going very well, probably because we had no idea what we were getting involved in.

    So, having taken the decision to welcome people into our nations as fellow citizens, who have such incredibly different values to ours, we have some onus to show them respect for their personal beliefs (like we do for different Christian groups). We owe this to ourselves and to them if we want to make our society work. If we say, these are our values - shape up or ship out, and by the way we support people who ridicule your values, it's just not going to work. Given that we are willing to make an effort to respect difference in so many areas of our lives, is it really so hard for our societies to agree not to ridicule the dearest tenets of their religion? Is that such a big sacrifice? Do we have to stand on principle and say it's my right to mock your religion - this is what America / UK etc is about? Can we not take issue with Islam and its problems in a civilised way?
    Isn't it more appropriate to expect that the immigrant population attempt to assimilate or at least not kill people for holding the views they have?

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    You've got a very different situation on your hands which needs a lot of careful handling. For good or for bad, America has welcomed Muslims as citizens of their country. We have done the same in the UK. Muslims come from very different cultural backgrounds to ours. In many of their countries of origin, it is more likely that they deal with actions which dishonour them and their brethren with violence - anything less is considered weakness.

    We have the right to expect some sort of openness to Western culture from Muslims who settle here, such openness does not always exist. If it's not there, then integration will never happen and it's best for all concerned if they are helped to go to a country they like. However, if there is some openness to integration, it will be fragile and the actual process of integration will be painful, slow and not necessarily successful. Many Muslims have a backstory of bitterness towards Western nations such as the UK and the US who have killed so many of their fellow Muslims over the years. As we know, their religion is also fervent. Integration of large numbers of Muslims into Western countries is probably one of the most ambitious programmes ever attempted in social history, and to be honest, it's not going very well, probably because we had no idea what we were getting involved in.

    So, having taken the decision to welcome people into our nations as fellow citizens, who have such incredibly different values to ours, we have some onus to show them respect for their personal beliefs (like we do for different Christian groups). We owe this to ourselves and to them if we want to make our society work. If we say, these are our values - shape up or ship out, and by the way we support people who ridicule your values, it's just not going to work. Given that we are willing to make an effort to respect difference in so many areas of our lives, is it really so hard for our societies to agree not to ridicule the dearest tenets of their religion? Is that such a big sacrifice? Do we have to stand on principle and say it's my right to mock your religion - this is what America / UK etc is about? Can we not take issue with Islam and its problems in a civilised way?
    Mocking their religion doesn't start and stop with cartoon depictions of their prophet.

    Western Society and principles that somtimes include Democracy and Liberty mock their religion.

    Integration as Americans should understand it is diversity existing under the principles that made America what it is.

    Those principles shouldn't change.

    A culture that opposes on principle the fundamental beliefs that made America what it is today should not be encouraged to participate.

    Multiculturalism was IMO a foolish gamble and initiative that was put into practice without allot of thought towards the possible consequences.

    Its one thing to bring In immigrants with different languages and traditions. Its another to bring un people who's traditions include Religious and idelogical beliefs that can't evolve as a part of integration.
    Last edited by Fenton; 05-04-15 at 04:04 PM.
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Moderator's Warning:
    Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit [W:439, 529, 978, 1489]Folks, this is getting heated. Some infractions have already gone out and I'll be looking back in the thread for any issues prior to this warning. But I'd suggest going forward that everyone tone it down and stay within the rules

  10. #440
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-scot View Post
    You've got a very different situation on your hands which needs a lot of careful handling. For good or for bad, America has welcomed Muslims as citizens of their country. We have done the same in the UK. Muslims come from very different cultural backgrounds to ours. In many of their countries of origin, it is more likely that they deal with actions which dishonour them and their brethren with violence - anything less is considered weakness.

    We have the right to expect some sort of openness to Western culture from Muslims who settle here, such openness does not always exist. If it's not there, then integration will never happen and it's best for all concerned if they are helped to go to a country they like. However, if there is some openness to integration, it will be fragile and the actual process of integration will be painful, slow and not necessarily successful. Many Muslims have a backstory of bitterness towards Western nations such as the UK and the US who have killed so many of their fellow Muslims over the years. As we know, their religion is also fervent. Integration of large numbers of Muslims into Western countries is probably one of the most ambitious programmes ever attempted in social history, and to be honest, it's not going very well, probably because we had no idea what we were getting involved in.

    So, having taken the decision to welcome people into our nations as fellow citizens, who have such incredibly different values to ours, we have some onus to show them respect for their personal beliefs (like we do for different Christian groups). We owe this to ourselves and to them if we want to make our society work. If we say, these are our values - shape up or ship out, and by the way we support people who ridicule your values, it's just not going to work. Given that we are willing to make an effort to respect difference in so many areas of our lives, is it really so hard for our societies to agree not to ridicule the dearest tenets of their religion? Is that such a big sacrifice? Do we have to stand on principle and say it's my right to mock your religion - this is what America / UK etc is about? Can we not take issue with Islam and its problems in a civilised way?
    Good post. In a society there are all kinds of people. Most americans are very tolerant and respectful of muslims, as most muslims are of non-muslims in america. Then you get to the extremists on both sides.

    You can say Ms. Geller's group is insensitive to muslims and you'd be correct, but what they did was LEGAL. The ISIS response was to show up with guns intent on killing someone for voicing their crude but legal opinion. In this country, you don't get to do that, even if you are muslim, sorry, shooting people is ILLEGAL. You come to our country, you have to obey our laws. It is against the law to murder people. They tried, they were gunned down in the street like they should have been.

    You're never going to get all the people to line up in neat little rows. When a group does something you don't like, you can legally litigate, or tolerate it. You don't get to go kill them for it.

    It's like flag burning, many don't like it, but many fought for their RIGHT to burn the flag. That's what free speech is about. I have not seen a vet shoot a flag burner. In this country you have to deal with it differently.

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