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Thread: Two Shot at Muhammad Art Exhibit [W:439, 529, 978, 1489]

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Great!! Then you'll now defend her right to say whatever she wants. Happy you came to your senses!
    If I know anything about Kobie, he never wanted to stop her from saying anything in the first place, so "came to your senses" would be inaccurate.
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And too lazy to read thru the thread to educate yourself of my position, you project a strawman that I never claimed. I'm not alone, there are other free speech advocates that take issue with Geller's expression.

    Freedom of Expression vs. Inciting Violence
    You're so far from being a "free speech advocate" it's laughable.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yes, it IS/WAS incitement of violence IMO. And I would like to see it brought under the unprotected speech guidelines already in existence. But for the umpteenth time, your laziness to read thru the whole thread to know my whole position instead of breaking in on page 150 blathering like an idiot just earned you no further response from me.
    Well you've gotta decide. One moment you're saying you never claimed it should be restricted by the law then a moment later you claimed you haven't made such statement and now you're claiming again that you believe the law should label the mockery of religion an unprotected speech.

    Well I'll simply repeat what I told you in the beginning of this discussion; if you believe it's a bad move that's your own opinion and it's really carrying no political relevancy. If you believe that it should be restricted by the law then you are opposing free speech since it isn't, as you claimed it was, an "incitement to violence" - it was the mockery of religion period.

    An incitement to violence is defined in the law as a call for violence to be used against a person or a group of people. This is not the case here. What you believe should be restricted is purely the mockery of religion. You are opposing the value of the freedom of speech, which is a key value in every Democracy. You are thus opposing Democracy and are in support of dark dictatorships and backwards theocracies that forbid the mockery of religion.
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    An incitement to violence is defined in the law as a call for violence to be used against a person or a group of people. This is not the case here. What you believe should be restricted is purely the mockery of religion. You are opposing the value of the freedom of speech, which is a key value in every Democracy. You are thus opposing Democracy and are in support of dark dictatorships and backwards theocracies that forbid the mockery of religion.
    Do Jews in Israel perform these Geller rituals ?
    Chemists Have Solutions .

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Do Jews in Israel perform these Geller rituals ?
    What's your obsession with Israel mate?
    No we don't have these dumb draw a Mohammad cartoon contests here, we've never had them here before as far as I recall, and I do believe it's not an American concept either but a European one. Hopefully this answers your question.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    What's your obsession with Israel mate?
    No we don't have these dumb draw a Mohammad cartoon contests here, we've never had them here before as far as I recall, and I do believe it's not an American concept either but a European one. Hopefully this answers your question.
    It does answer my question and I thank you for that.
    I didn't expect that Israel would be so stupid as to allow these dumb draw a Mohammed cartoon contests and invite trouble they don't need.

    I can see this Geller obsession with our fright-wing spilling over into the ME.
    Just as with the Pastor Jones burning of the Qurans did, which was opposed by Gen. Patraeus so the frighties backed off.
    Not so in the last decade with Bush/Cheney and not again if we get a GOP President in 2017--Geller-types will be quietly banned again .
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's more because I'm an atheist and don't want to be caught in the middle of a fight two large religions seem determined to have.
    Well, in that you have NO control...Religion is one of the biggies when it comes to armed conflict and its causes....So, like I said, your best bet would probably be to not appear as if you side with the enemy of the nation you reside in...Just sayin'

    On that, nobody has been able, though I've challenged several posters on it, to explain to me the value of Geller's deliberate provocation of the sensibilities of an entire religion for no other benefit then the joy she experiences by pissing off an entire religion. Care to be the first?
    Well, I am not in Pam Geller's mind, nor do I know her personally, but to listen to her explain it, she says it has to do with not giving in to the absurd demand of a religion in our own country, where free speech is protected.

    You speak of provocation, then atheists are in that boat too Monte...Consider all of the tactics used by the "Freedom FROM religion" coalition of atheists out there that seek out religions, and memorials to target for removal in communities that want them there....They are the personification of the term "tyranny of the minority".... If Christians were to be violent against them how would that be different than what Islamists are attempting to do to the rest of the world with their superficial intolerance of someone drawing a cartoon of Muhammad?

    I am not one that thinks that people should be mocking religions, however, in the great scheme of things, you as an atheist, and me as an agnostic should at least be united in the call that the barbarism of killing over something like that is ridiculous...
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    It does answer my question and I thank you for that.
    I didn't expect that Israel would be so stupid as to allow these dumb draw a Mohammed cartoon contests and invite trouble they don't need.
    You do have a good point. I imagine that such events would be banned in Israel using a variety of existing laws. Furthermore, I have a strange feeling that the Shin Bet, the Israeli internal security service, monitors Jewish secular and religous right wingers in an effort to pre-empt similar stunts.

    That aside, we are not facing the same situation as Israel, so there is no real reason to ban Geller. Rather, she should just not be facilitated (cant rent govt owned buildings to host the event, no designated police protection- she must provide private security etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You speak of provocation, then atheists are in that boat too Monte...Consider all of the tactics used by the "Freedom FROM religion" coalition of atheists out there that seek out religions, and memorials to target for removal in communities that want them there....They are the personification of the term "tyranny of the minority".... If Christians were to be violent against them how would that be different than what Islamists are attempting to do to the rest of the world with their superficial intolerance of someone drawing a cartoon of Muhammad?
    Well said.

    I too would not support any similar event out of respect for Christ's admonition against giving "needless offense". At the same time, banning Geller would not only an afront our system (where everybody must tolerate some kind of provocation, whether it is muhammand cartoons or Christians having to put up with largely out of state atheists attempting to socially "cleanse" all communities of even token references to Christianity) but could lead to more demands.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 05-14-15 at 11:53 AM.

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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    You're so far from being a "free speech advocate" it's laughable.

    Come on, Man, be fair.

    Montecresco is Debatepolitics champion of free speech just like Lindsey Lohan is Hollywood's champion of sobriety and I dare anybody here to say otherwise!
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    Re: Shooting at Muhammad Art Exhibit in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, in that you have NO control...Religion is one of the biggies when it comes to armed conflict and its causes....So, like I said, your best bet would probably be to not appear as if you side with the enemy of the nation you reside in...Just sayin' Well, I am not in Pam Geller's mind, nor do I know her personally, but to listen to her explain it, she says it has to do with not giving in to the absurd demand of a religion in our own country, where free speech is protected. You speak of provocation, then atheists are in that boat too Monte...Consider all of the tactics used by the "Freedom FROM religion" coalition of atheists out there that seek out religions, and memorials to target for removal in communities that want them there....They are the personification of the term "tyranny of the minority".... If Christians were to be violent against them how would that be different than what Islamists are attempting to do to the rest of the world with their superficial intolerance of someone drawing a cartoon of Muhammad? I am not one that thinks that people should be mocking religions, however, in the great scheme of things, you as an atheist, and me as an agnostic should at least be united in the call that the barbarism of killing over something like that is ridiculous...
    Many are trying to make this into an Islam versus Christianity thing but of course it goes well beyond that. Islamists will murder Christians certainly, as they are doing now in the ME, and they will happily murder Jews. But they will also murder Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, and anyone else they choose. Their record says as much.

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