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City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

She specifically went out of her way and spoke to it's legality status in regards to Maryland law, not Baltimore city ordinances which is what the violation listed is.

Ms. Mosby said,
“The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law.”

As the knife may be illegal by ordinance she may be engaged in misdirection.
That remains to be seen, but it is a good possibility.

Even if the officers were mistaken about the knife, it doesn’t make the arrest ‘illegal’ or lacking probable cause… probable cause can be based on an honest mistake.


The Officer stated in his report that the knife was;
found to be a spring assisted, one hand operated knife.
Charging documents for Freddie Gray - Baltimore Sun

The charged law.
City Code
§ 59-22 Switch-blade knives.
(a) Possession or sale, etc., prohibited.
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, carry, or possess any knife with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife.​

(b) Penalties.
Any person violating the provisions of this section, shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not
more than $500 or be imprisoned for not more than 1 year, or both, in the discretion of the court.​
(City Code, 1950, art. 24, §155; 1966, art. 19, §160; 1976/83, art. 19, §185.) (Ord. 44-057.)

Switch-blade knives. (§ 59-22)

A spring assisted knife may fall under that law.


Please see the argument laid out here.
Legal Insurrection | Freddie Gray | Unlawful Arrest | Probable Cause


Yes. The videos I posted earlier are there for review.





The folks replying indicates that is not true.
Dershowitz position indicates that is not true.
The FOP's position indicates that is not true.
Etc ...
So why are you speaking untruths?
Never mind, I know.

Again, she specificaly stated that his possesion of the knife did not violate the laws. I don't think there is any reason to question her integrity at this point.
 
As you already know, she did not say that.

This is what she said, verbatim: "Knife, not switchblade, was found clipped to Gray's pants pocket; was legal."
 
Again, she specificaly stated that his possesion of the knife did not violate the laws. I don't think there is any reason to question her integrity at this point.


This is what she said, verbatim: "Knife, not switchblade, was found clipped to Gray's pants pocket; was legal."
No. What she said was already quoted, verbatim.

Ms. Mosby said,
“The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html

That may be a misdirection as it was not Maryland law he was charged under. It was City Code.


Then the actual code, as provided, may be applicable (spring assisted is more than likely to fall under that law), and even if not that does not mean there was no probable cause, as probable cause can be based on a mistake.
 
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The prosecutor stated that the knife, or his possesion of it did not violate local law. "Running from the police" could just have been "running"...it is not illegal to run. The cops testimony that it was "after eye contact was made" is fairly irrelevant. If the cops had no real reason to suspect that he was involved in a crime, they had no probable cause to interact with him in any way.



It is only possible to detain for identification if there is probable cause that the suspect was commiting a crime. ID laws do not give cops blanket authority to "check your papers" at will. They must have a reason to ask for identification.
Lets say that is true. Is that reason to charge these officers with a crime? Is that common? Seems to me that they should face disciplinary action but false imprisonment is absurd and there is no way they will be found guilty of that. The issue here is the mans death, what caused it and who is responsible. If its the driver-and it seems to be-then the criminal charges should be applied to him only. Nothing else that appears to have happen at the hands of the other officers seems to warrant criminal prosecution. Overcharging is going to cause more problems then it hoped to solve when virtually all the charges are dropped.
 
Well good. At least finally the media is reporting on black on black violence then.

The media has always reported on it but this is totally different. Did you even know that 3 of the officers charged were black until that was mentioned? Did the news you watch even mention that or show this picture:

02baltimore_officers2-articleLarge-v3.jpg

edit: quoted myself for some reason originally
 
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Lets say that is true. Is that reason to charge these officers with a crime? Is that common? Seems to me that they should face disciplinary action but false imprisonment is absurd and there is no way they will be found guilty of that. The issue here is the mans death, what caused it and who is responsible. If its the driver-and it seems to be-then the criminal charges should be applied to him only. Nothing else that appears to have happen at the hands of the other officers seems to warrant criminal prosecution. Overcharging is going to cause more problems then it hoped to solve when virtually all the charges are dropped.

Murder charges seem excessive to me, but he did die while in their custody. However, unless they can prove that the death did not result from their negligence....they may get convicted. If they had no legitimate reason to detain him....false imprisonment will stick. If you've done nothing wrong, the cops have no more right to lock you up than I do.
 
If they had no legitimate reason to detain him....false imprisonment will stick. If you've done nothing wrong, the cops have no more right to lock you up than I do.
That is not true, probable cause can be based on an honest mistake.
 
No. What she said was already quoted, verbatim.

Ms. Mosby said,
“The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html

That may be a misdirection as it was not Maryland law he was charged under. It was City Code.


Then the actual code, as provided, may be applicable (spring assisted is more than likely to fall under that law), and even if not that does not mean there was no probable cause, as probable cause can be based on a mistake.

If there were another law that it did violate, and the Prosecutor said it was legal....that would have been all over the news by now. There is no reason to suspect that she is attempting to misdirect anyone. She stated the knife was legal. :shrug:
 
That is not true, probable cause can be based on an honest mistake.

That makes no sense. A mistake would mean he thought he had probable cause but didn't. The charges would hold if a case of "mistaken probable cause" was attempted.
 
If there were another law that it did violate, and the Prosecutor said it was legal....that would have been all over the news by now. There is no reason to suspect that she is attempting to misdirect anyone. She stated the knife was legal. :shrug:
Are you serious?
She stated it was legal under Maryland Law, not under the City Code charged. And that may not even be true.
Of course there is reason to suspect.
Her whole position is of social concern not legal and is of over charging, and you think there is not reason to doubt her. :doh

Watch the previous video where Dershowitz is interviewed.

Then read the information at the Legal Insurrection link I provided to you.


That makes no sense. A mistake would mean he thought he had probable cause but didn't. The charges would hold if a case of "mistaken probable cause" was attempted.
Probable cause can be based on a honest mistake. And no, under such circumstance the charges would be dropped, but it would not be an illegal arrest.
Which is just further reason top suggest she is overreacting
 
Are you serious?
She stated it was legal under Maryland Law, not under the City Code charged. And that may not even be true.
Of course there is reason to suspect.
Her whole position is of social concern not legal and is of over charging, and you think there is not reason to doubt her. :doh

Watch the previous video where Dershowitz is interviewed.

Then read the information at the Legal Insurrection link I provided to you.

That's some tinfoil hat stuff right there. She not autonomous....she can't just get up there and make **** up on the spot. If she were lying in any fashion....and that's what you're claiming she may have done....the state would come down on her like a ton of bricks.
 
Probable cause can be based on a honest mistake. And no, under such circumstance the charges would be dropped, but it would not be an illegal arrest.
Which is just further reason top suggest she is overreacting

Finding out that it is a mistake eliminates the probable part. :shrug:
 
That's some tinfoil hat stuff right there. She not autonomous....she can't just get up there and make **** up on the spot. If she were lying in any fashion....and that's what you're claiming she may have done....the state would come down on her like a ton of bricks.
No, your assumptions in face of the evidence is tin foil bs.

Finding out that it is a mistake eliminates the probable part. :shrug:
No it doesn't.

Thinking the knife is in violation of the law gives probable cause.
 
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In point of fact, any time this sort of negligence results in death it could result in criminal charges. But it seldom does because prosecutors seldom think it rises to the level of criminality. This case, though, is exceptional.

No, it's not a racial thing even though the mob thinks it is. Three of the six officers charged are black. The one officer charged with murder is black.

Honestly, I very rarely if ever think personal racism is a factor. That is to say that I don't beleive white officers don't think blacks inferior as a race, but I'm certain that many look down upon those in the inner cities (regardless of color) for many, many other reasons. We live in such a politically correct society we're never allowed to forget that there is a separate white/ black culture and frankly I think it contributes to the problem.

Thant's not to say there aren't racists and that even some cops are racist, but I think the numbers of cops that look down at black people as strictly inferior as a race are few and I think that is often confused with one person looking down on another person as a person who happens to be a different color.

Is there discrimination? YES, sure, we all discriminate. Anyone that says they don't doesn't understand what the word means or there just not being honest.

I think that people are more tuned to class-ism than racism....imho Something I might also refer to as "institutional racism", cultural stereo types and media bias. They all play in to paint a picture that rarely matches what we see in reality.
 
No, your assumptions in face of the evidence is tin foil bs.


No it doesn't.

Thinking the knife is in violation of the law gives probable cause.

Well, they didn't know he had the knife when they started chasing him. So, again, you're not making sense.
 
Lets say that is true. Is that reason to charge these officers with a crime? Is that common? Seems to me that they should face disciplinary action but false imprisonment is absurd and there is no way they will be found guilty of that. The issue here is the mans death, what caused it and who is responsible. If its the driver-and it seems to be-then the criminal charges should be applied to him only. Nothing else that appears to have happen at the hands of the other officers seems to warrant criminal prosecution. Overcharging is going to cause more problems then it hoped to solve when virtually all the charges are dropped.

If you look at who is responsible for the man's death then there's no question it is the driver who likely unintentionally committed homicide. I suspect the charge of false arrest was brought in because they needed white faces among those charged.
 
One feature of the US judicial system is the right to a fair trial, and as such, the fate of those on trial and what may be discussed in court is *not* up to the whims of an elected prosecutor.

Again, it's up to the DA or State's Attorney to decide what cases to try. There are hundreds of thousands of cases that are dropped each year because the Prosecutor didn't bring charges or allowed the accused to plea down.
 
Thinking the knife is in violation of the law gives probable cause.

And what you are failing to understand is they had NO probable cause at the time they chased him. They had NO idea he had knife at the point. Making it an illegal arrest.
 
The prosecutor stated that the knife, or his possesion of it did not violate local law. "Running from the police" could just have been "running"...it is not illegal to run. The cops testimony that it was "after eye contact was made" is fairly irrelevant. If the cops had no real reason to suspect that he was involved in a crime, they had no probable cause to interact with him in any way.



It is only possible to detain for identification if there is probable cause that the suspect was commiting a crime. ID laws do not give cops blanket authority to "check your papers" at will. They must have a reason to ask for identification.

And I'm most cases, you don't need to carry identification with you. For example, you don't need to have your drivers license with you unless you care actually driving.
 
No, your assumptions in face of the evidence is tin foil bs.


No it doesn't.

Thinking the knife is in violation of the law gives probable cause.

Why would the knife violate the law? It would be covered by the Second Amendment.
 
This one is just idiotic, the moron stood up in the back of the van and fell and broke his own neck and it's the police's responsibility for this mans own stupidity? Give me a break.

This is from the Charging Documents:

<snip>

"Mr. Gray was then placed in a prone position with his arms handcuffed behind his back. It was at this time that Mr. Gray indicated that he could not breathe and requested an inhaler to no avail.

Officers Miller and Nero then placed Mr. Gray in a seated position and subsequently found a knife clipped to the inside of his pants pocket. The blade of the knife was folded into the handle. The knife was not a switchblade knife and is lawful under Maryland law. These officers subsequently removed the knife and placed it on the sidewalk.

Mr. Gray was then placed back down on his stomach, at which time Mr. Gray began to flail his legs and scream as Officer Miller placed Mr. Gray in a restraining technique known as a "leg lace" while Officer Nero physically held him down against his will until a BPD wagon arrived to transport Mr. Gray. Lt. Rice, Officer Miller and Officer Nero failed to establish probable cause for Mr. Gray's arrest as no crime had been committed by Mr. Gray.

Accordingly, Lt. Rice, Officer Miller and Officer Nero illegally arrested Mr. Gray. Upon arrival of the transport wagon, driven by Officer Ceasar Goodson, Lt. Rice, Officer Nero, and Officer Miller loaded Mr. Gray into the wagon and at no point was he secured by a seat belt while in the wagon, contrary to a BPD General Order.

Lt. Rice then directed the BPD wagon to stop at Baker Street. At Baker Street, Lt. Rice, Officer Nero and Officer Miller removed Mr. Gray from the wagon, placed flex cuffs on his wrists, placed leg shackles on his ankles, and completed required paperwork.

Officer Miller, Officer Nero and Lt. Rice then loaded Mr. Gray back into the wagon, placing him on his stomach, head first onto the floor of the wagon. Once again, Mr. Gray was not secured by a seat belt in the wagon, contrary to a BPD General Order. Lt. Rice then directed Officer Goodson to transport Mr. Gray to the Central Booking and Intake Facility.

Following transport from Baker Street, Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet, and unrestrained inside of the BPD wagon.

From Baker Street, Officer Goodson proceeded to the vicinity of Mosher Street and Fremont Avenue, where he subsequently parked the wagon and proceeded to the back of the wagon in order to observe Mr. Gray.

Despite stopping for the purpose of checking on Mr. Gray's condition, at no point did he seek, nor did he render, any medical assistance for Mr. Gray
.

Officer Goodson returned to his driver's seat and proceeded toward the Central Booking and Intake Facility, with Mr. Gray still unsecured by a seat belt, contrary to a BPD General Order.

Several blocks later, Officer Goodson called into dispatch that he needed to check on the status of his prisoner and requested additional units at Dolphin Street and Druid Hill Avenue. Officer William Porter arrived on the scene near Dolphin Street and Druid Hill Avenue.

Both Officer Goodson and Officer Porter proceeded to the back of the wagon to check on the status of Mr. Gray's condition. Mr. Gray requested "help" and indicated that he could not breathe. Officer Porter asked Mr. Gray if he needed a medic, at which time Mr. Gray indicated at least twice that he was in need of a medic.

<more>
 
<cont.>

Officer Porter then physically assisted Mr. Gray from the floor of the van to the bench. However, despite Mr. Gray's appeal for a medic, both officers assessed Mr. Gray's condition and at no point did either of them restrain Mr. Gray, per BPD General Order, nor did they render or request medical assistance.

While discussing the transportation of Mr. Gray for medical attention, a request for additional units was made for an arrest at 1600 W. North Avenue. Officer Porter left the vicinity of Dolphin Street and Druid Hill Avenue to assist in the arrest of another prisoner at North Avenue.

Despite Mr. Gray's obvious and recognized need for medical assistance, Officer Goodson, in a grossly negligent manner, chose to respond to the 1600 block of W. North Avenue, with Mr. Gray still unsecured by a seat belt in the wagon, without rendering to or summonsing medical assistance for Mr. Gray.

Officer Goodson arrived at North Avenue to transport the individual arrested at the location of North and Pennsylvania avenues, at which time, he was again met by Officers Nero, Miller, Porter and Lt. Rice. Once the wagon arrived, Officer Goodson walked to the back of the wagon and again opened the doors to the wagon to make observations of Mr. Gray. Sgt. Alicia White, Officer Porter, and Officer Goodson observed Mr. Gray unresponsive on the floor of the wagon.

Sgt. White, who was responsible for investigating two citizen complaints pertaining to Mr. Gray's illegal arrest, spoke to the back of Mr. Gray's head. When he did not respond, she did nothing further despite the fact that she was advised that he needed a medic.

She made no effort to look, assess or determine his condition. Despite Mr. Gray's seriously deteriorating medical condition, no medical assistance was rendered to or summonsed for Mr. Gray at that time by any office
r.

After completing the North Avenue arrest and loading the additional prisoner into the opposite side of the wagon containing Mr. Gray, Officer Goodson then proceeded to the Western District Police Station, where contrary to the BPD General Order, he again failed to restrain Mr. Gray in the wagon for at least the fifth time. At the Western District Police Station, the defendant arrested at North Avenue was unloaded, escorted, and secured inside of the police station prior to attending to Mr. Gray.

By the time Officer Zachary Novak, Sgt. White and an unknown officer attempted to remove Mr. Gray from the wagon, Mr. Gray was no longer breathing at all
.

A medic was finally called to the scene, where upon arrival, the medic determined that Mr. Gray was now in cardiac arrest and was critically and severely injured."

(This is from public, Government Documents, so not subject to copyright rules)

More: Statement of Charges in Freddie Gray case | Maryland News - WBAL Home
 
Odd reply considering your claim of "me-against-the-world crusade" is rhetoric.

Stop baiting. Your circle of beliefs is far too small and closed off for you to be any kind of accusations like that.
 
(snip for length)

<cont.>

Officer Porter then physically assisted Mr. Gray from the floor of the van to the bench. However, despite Mr. Gray's appeal for a medic, both officers assessed Mr. Gray's condition and at no point did either of them restrain Mr. Gray, per BPD General Order, nor did they render or request medical assistance.

While discussing the transportation of Mr. Gray for medical attention, a request for additional units was made for an arrest at 1600 W. North Avenue. Officer Porter left the vicinity of Dolphin Street and Druid Hill Avenue to assist in the arrest of another prisoner at North Avenue.

Despite Mr. Gray's obvious and recognized need for medical assistance, Officer Goodson, in a grossly negligent manner, chose to respond to the 1600 block of W. North Avenue, with Mr. Gray still unsecured by a seat belt in the wagon, without rendering to or summonsing medical assistance for Mr. Gray.

Officer Goodson arrived at North Avenue to transport the individual arrested at the location of North and Pennsylvania avenues, at which time, he was again met by Officers Nero, Miller, Porter and Lt. Rice. Once the wagon arrived, Officer Goodson walked to the back of the wagon and again opened the doors to the wagon to make observations of Mr. Gray. Sgt. Alicia White, Officer Porter, and Officer Goodson observed Mr. Gray unresponsive on the floor of the wagon.

Sgt. White, who was responsible for investigating two citizen complaints pertaining to Mr. Gray's illegal arrest, spoke to the back of Mr. Gray's head. When he did not respond, she did nothing further despite the fact that she was advised that he needed a medic.

She made no effort to look, assess or determine his condition. Despite Mr. Gray's seriously deteriorating medical condition, no medical assistance was rendered to or summonsed for Mr. Gray at that time by any office
r.

After completing the North Avenue arrest and loading the additional prisoner into the opposite side of the wagon containing Mr. Gray, Officer Goodson then proceeded to the Western District Police Station, where contrary to the BPD General Order, he again failed to restrain Mr. Gray in the wagon for at least the fifth time. At the Western District Police Station, the defendant arrested at North Avenue was unloaded, escorted, and secured inside of the police station prior to attending to Mr. Gray.

By the time Officer Zachary Novak, Sgt. White and an unknown officer attempted to remove Mr. Gray from the wagon, Mr. Gray was no longer breathing at all
.

A medic was finally called to the scene, where upon arrival, the medic determined that Mr. Gray was now in cardiac arrest and was critically and severely injured."

(This is from public, Government Documents, so not subject to copyright rules)

More: Statement of Charges in Freddie Gray case | Maryland News - WBAL Home

Jesus ****ing God.

If all of that is true, then it's game over for those officers.

As it damn well better be.
 
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