• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

It happens more than we wish to admit. Ever wonder how a prison guard can get even with a prisoner?

Again, I'd define the balance as giving the officers what they need to keep themselves as safe as possible while keeping the public as safe as possible, not just from death but from injury as well. It's clear to me that that balance hasn't been struck and the poorer you are and the less capable you are of defending yourself after an incident, the more likely you will be to be a victim of abuse by police. Given that it's impossible to document, we have no idea how often it really happens, but I've seen enough on my own to convince me it happens wayyyy too much.
 
I'm glad the officers involved are being held accountable. But... and it's a big one... arrest is one thing, conviction is another. Most police officers who are actually arrested and go to trial are acquitted, regardless of the circumstances. Look at those Fullerton police officers who repeatedly tazed a handcuffed, mentally disturbed man, then beat and kicked him to death. Every bone in his face was fractured. His face was completely black, unrecognizable, and the size of a watermelon. Almost all of the incident was caught on video, witnessed by dozens of people... yet they were acquitted, even in the face of indisputable evidence that they had literally murdered a handcuffed man.

My main fear is that if... or when... these officers are acquitted, last week's riot in Baltimore will look like mere foreplay to the explosion of violence that will be unleashed. I truly hope they have a bulletproof case, but even if they do, events in Fullerton reveal that isn't enough to get convictions against police officers who have clearly abused their authority.
 
Any chance there will be charges against the AG? Do you think she will provide any evidence for these charges? Will she talk about the relationship she has with the family's attorney?

What about a conflict of interest? Did she overcharge this case in order to help the family's civil suit, to help them get more money?

There are a lot of questions that she needs to answer after what she has done today.
 
Any chance there will be charges against the AG? Do you think she will provide any evidence for these charges? Will she talk about the relationship she has with the family's attorney?

What about a conflict of interest? Did she overcharge this case in order to help the family's civil suit, to help them get more money?

There are a lot of questions that she needs to answer after what she has done today.

CNN is talking her up like she's MLK and Lincoln wrapped into a single person. I predict by tomorrow she will be on a short list to be Hillary's running mate.
 
Again, I'd define the balance as giving the officers what they need to keep themselves as safe as possible while keeping the public as safe as possible, not just from death but from injury as well. It's clear to me that that balance hasn't been struck and the poorer you are and the less capable you are of defending yourself after an incident, the more likely you will be to be a victim of abuse by police. Given that it's impossible to document, we have no idea how often it really happens, but I've seen enough on my own to convince me it happens wayyyy too much.
I agree. Why are not Officer involved shootings- from shots fired no injuries to death not mandatory to compile and report.
 
Any chance there will be charges against the AG? Do you think she will provide any evidence for these charges? Will she talk about the relationship she has with the family's attorney?

What about a conflict of interest? Did she overcharge this case in order to help the family's civil suit, to help them get more money?

There are a lot of questions that she needs to answer after what she has done today.
You carry on as if what she did was illegal?
 
All six officers have been charged. Now it goes to Grand Jury. As I read over the charges those are some pretty high charges for someone to be charged with and with that comes proof some pretty high proof they are warranted.
•Officer Caeser B. Goodson, Jr. was charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, two counts of manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.
•Officer William G. Porter was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.
•Lt. Brian W. Rice was charged with involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
•Officer Edward M. Nero charged with two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
•Officer Garret Miller charged with two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
•Sgt. Alicia White involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Warrants have been issued for the arrest of the officers.

But what if they can't prove the level of the charges against these officers? What if the Grand Jury can't justify such charges and throws the case out for some or all? What is that going to do for those who have already made up their mind the officers are guilty of the crimes they have been charged with? Will that cause an uproar of burn the bitch down again?
 
It stinks of corruption. I know that can't be, since it's all run by democrats in Baltimore. But there's a small chance.

Is that all you have?
 
CNN is talking her up like she's MLK and Lincoln wrapped into a single person. I predict by tomorrow she will be on a short list to be Hillary's running mate.


'Bout as dumb as Joe the Plummer or that lady from Alaska with the reality TV family.....
 
Yes, which is more than she does, but I'm not the one filing charges.

Ya got nothing but partisanship. Another reason your justice system is severely flawed.
 
Ya got nothing but partisanship. Another reason your justice system is severely flawed.

One of the Prosecutors largest donors is the attorney for the Family of Freddie Gray and she's married to a City Council member.

Don't you think she should recuse herself ?
 
One of the Prosecutors largest donors is the attorney for the Family of Freddie Gray and she's married to a City Council member.

Don't you think she should recuse herself ?

No....
 
All six officers have been charged. Now it goes to Grand Jury. As I read over the charges those are some pretty high charges for someone to be charged with and with that comes proof some pretty high proof they are warranted.
•Officer Caeser B. Goodson, Jr. was charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, two counts of manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.
•Officer William G. Porter was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.
•Lt. Brian W. Rice was charged with involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
•Officer Edward M. Nero charged with two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
•Officer Garret Miller charged with two counts of second-degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
•Sgt. Alicia White involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Warrants have been issued for the arrest of the officers.

But what if they can't prove the level of the charges against these officers? What if the Grand Jury can't justify such charges and throws the case out for some or all? What is that going to do for those who have already made up their mind the officers are guilty of the crimes they have been charged with? Will that cause an uproar of burn the bitch down again?

As a person who is critical of police and their tactics, I have to say I agree. I just had this exact conversation with my brother. This is how I would see it play out.

The first line of responsibility is that of the driver. it seems he was primarily responsible and regardless of how his prisoner was loaded it's his responsibility to ensure his safety and he should take the brunt of the blame for what happened.

The officers that loaded him into the van failed to secure Mr. Fray and are certainly in breech of department policy. Assuming that's all they did, involuntary manslaughter seems pretty steep to me. I'm not certain where the assault charge comes from, but if it's as a result of injuries sustained after the van leaves, then I'm not on board with that either.

As for the Sargent and Lt., they are superiors and if they knew Mr. Gray was not properly loaded per department policy then they should be severely reprimanded, but again, I'm just not sure that inv. manslaughter is appropriate here.

Now, if anyone has seen a charging document for a man who commits a robbery, it's not unusual to see a laundry list of charges, most of which disappear and, given the evidence, the worst 2-3 (that can be demonstrated via evidence) stick. So I have little doubt that much of what we're seeing today is tossed out before this is over. I hope there isn't anyone that hopes that they will be charged with all this stuff, because as a critic of police tactics I doubt that's what going to happen, nor do I think, at this time given what I know, that it's right.

I wouldn't be surprised if the severity of the charges and the liberal manner in which they were doled out had something to do with appeasing the natives, but as I said, I don't think it's all that unusual to "throw the book" at an alleged criminal and see "what sticks".

I should add that failure to render/ request assistance is something that some or all of the officers could be charged with, but I have no idea specific scenarios for each.
 
Last edited:
As a person who is critical of police and their tactics, I have to say I agree. I just had this exact conversation with my brother. This is how I would see it play out.

The first line of responsibility is that of the driver. it seems he was primarily responsible and regardless of how his prisoner was loaded it's his responsibility to ensure his safety and he should take the brunt of the blame for what happened.

The officers that loaded him into the van failed to secure Mr. Fray and are certainly in breech of department policy. Assuming that's all they did, involuntary manslaughter seems pretty steep to me. I'm not certain where the assault charge comes from, but if it's as a result of injuries sustained after the van leaves, then I'm not on board with that either.

As for the Sargent and Lt., they are superiors and if they knew Mr. Gray was not properly loaded per department policy then they should be severely reprimanded, but again, I'm just not sure that inv. manslaughter is appropriate here.

Now, if anyone has seen a charging document for a man who commits a robbery, it's not unusual to see a laundry list of charges, most of which disappear and, given the evidence, the worst 2-3 (that can be demonstrated via evidence) stick. So I have little doubt that much of what we're seeing today is tossed out before this is over. I hope there isn't anyone that hopes that they will be charged with all this stuff, because as a critic of police tactics I doubt that's what going to happen, nor do I think, at this time given what I know, that it's right.

I wouldn't be surprised if the severity of the charges and the liberal manner in which they were doled out had something to do with appeasing the natives, but as I said, I don't think it's all that unusual to "throw the book" at an alleged criminal and see "what sticks".
Good post
Here are some facts that may interest you.

Six cops were charged in Baltimore. But only one-third of accused cops are convicted. - The Washington Post
 
I agree. Why are not Officer involved shootings- from shots fired no injuries to death not mandatory to compile and report.

This was a purely political act. Depraved heart, really? Because they didn't put on a seat belt. She is an absolute disgrace. More like Depraved Democrats.
 
When the officers are exonerated, Baltimore will be reduced to ashes.

And good luck finding qualified applicants for that police department moving forward.

So in the interest of full disclosure, here's what I think...Read before you reply;

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-mainstream-media/223019-city-state-s-attorney-says-freddie-gray-s-arrest-illegal-charges-officers-5.html#post1064583376

If it can be shown that Mr. Gray wasn't secured (a fact that doesn't seem to be in dispute) how does the driver of the van get exonerated?
 
Do we really treat enemy combatants with more respect than our own citizens?

Only if you take the events in Baltimore as a universal situation.
 
Ya got nothing but partisanship. Another reason your justice system is severely flawed.

Oh, not my system. This is the Democrat machine of Baltimore at work. You sure are right about partisanship.
 
This was a purely political act. Depraved heart, really? Because they didn't put on a seat belt. She is an absolute disgrace. More like Depraved Democrats.

In your system of Justice it is normal to lay a long list of charges.
Reason why many, even the innocent take a plea deal, because if convicted on 1 or 2 they are getting a longer sentence.
What you should ask- why does the US have such a high conviction rate?
Why are prosecutes, those guilty of wit holding evidence, not jailed, disbarred and prevented from serving in any office aside from cleaning up dog poop from local parks.
 
One of the Prosecutors largest donors is the attorney for the Family of Freddie Gray and she's married to a City Council member.

Don't you think she should recuse herself ?

Haha, these are democrats, that doesn't apply. You, silly!
 
Only if you take the events in Baltimore as a universal situation.

As someone that spent a year on ride-a-longs with the police (I wanted to be a cop) I saw my fair share of overly physical treatment. I saw people treated like scum and often used as a tactic to get people angry so they could be searched and/ or arrested. Again, I don't think that what happened in Baltimore is indicative of the majority of arrests across the US, but I would say that it happens far more often than it should.
 
Last edited:
In your system of Justice it is normal to lay a long list of charges.
Reason why many, even the innocent take a plea deal, because if convicted on 1 or 2 they are getting a longer sentence.
What you should ask- why does the US have such a high conviction rate?
Why are prosecutes, those guilty of wit holding evidence, not jailed, disbarred and prevented from serving in any office aside from cleaning up dog poop from local parks.

We don't know what happened at this point, and she certainly hasn't done a thorough investigation. What if they are guilty of some kind of negligence, or not guilty of anything. Why charge them with these crimes that will require a lot of conclusive evidence to convict, which she doesn't have at this point? And doesn't even know if it exists.

They may be guilty and get off because they won't be able to convict. Or, they may be innocent and take a plea to avoid a chance of going away for a long time. Both are not the outcomes that we want. She is not doing her job.
 

Lol !!

Imagine that. The Police officers deserve a fair trial ?

Or do you have your mind made up ?

It doesn't matter. The Cops are going to walk and Baltimore will slip further into the corrution and poverty and crime because they keep electing Democrat morons like this Prosecutor and the Mayor.
 
Back
Top Bottom