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Thread: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Why do you feel the need to ratchet up the rhetoric so quickly? I wait for all the evidence to come in, not just the alleged components of evidence that suits your narrow views.
    Odd reply considering your claim of "me-against-the-world crusade" is rhetoric.
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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Do you have independent sources to support these statements that how the knife was being carried complied with city ordinances and that running from the police is not probable cause to detain and attempt to identify an individual?

    The proscecutor is no more an independent source than the defense attorney.
    The prosecutor stated that the knife, or his possesion of it did not violate local law. "Running from the police" could just have been "running"...it is not illegal to run. The cops testimony that it was "after eye contact was made" is fairly irrelevant. If the cops had no real reason to suspect that he was involved in a crime, they had no probable cause to interact with him in any way.

    So it is possible that the police had lawful authority to detain Gray in an attempt to identify him. In Gray's case (18 prior arrests with the distinct possibility of being on probation or parole), such a detention could well yield lawful grounds to arrest him for either a criminal offense (failue to ID), or for administrative violations of his probation / parole status*.

    * providing that one can be arrested for adminstrative violations of probation / parole. I am not certain, but my bet is that one can be. How often it happens, or if the police int his case made a formal conclusion of administrative violations, may be another matter.


    Failure to ID is a criminal offense. Likewise, people on probation or parole might not enjoy the full right of refusal to answer other questions. For example, I know that some California parolees are "fourth amendment waiver" parolees and have signed an agreement waiving 4th amendment rights.
    It is only possible to detain for identification if there is probable cause that the suspect was commiting a crime. ID laws do not give cops blanket authority to "check your papers" at will. They must have a reason to ask for identification.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    You only need probable cause to arrest, not pursue. They also would have needed probable cause to search unless they were given permission. In this case, however, the knife they found was partially visible.
    That's a gray area....however, Freddy Grey was in his rights to run if he had commited no crime....running is not illegal. The cops claiming that he ran after "eye contact" was made is pretty weak and won't stand up.
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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw View Post
    Anyone who is currently or wants to go into law enforcement, are idiots. The job is dangerous enough without the DOJ and whiny liberals cities and states wanting to imprison you for trying to do a very difficult job.
    They should test their mettle one some of the dozens of jobs that are far more dangerous.
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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The prosecutor stated that the knife, or his possesion of it did not violate local law.
    As you already know, she did not say that.
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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    She specifically went out of her way and spoke to it's legality status in regards to Maryland law, not Baltimore city ordinances which is what the violation listed is.

    Ms. Mosby said,
    “The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law.”

    As the knife may be illegal by ordinance she may be engaged in misdirection.
    That remains to be seen, but it is a good possibility.

    Even if the officers were mistaken about the knife, it doesn’t make the arrest ‘illegal’ or lacking probable cause… probable cause can be based on an honest mistake.


    The Officer stated in his report that the knife was;
    found to be a spring assisted, one hand operated knife.
    Charging documents for Freddie Gray - Baltimore Sun

    The charged law.
    City Code
    § 59-22 Switch-blade knives.
    (a) Possession or sale, etc., prohibited.
    It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, carry, or possess any knife with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife.

    (b) Penalties.
    Any person violating the provisions of this section, shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not
    more than $500 or be imprisoned for not more than 1 year, or both, in the discretion of the court.
    (City Code, 1950, art. 24, §155; 1966, art. 19, §160; 1976/83, art. 19, §185.) (Ord. 44-057.)

    Switch-blade knives. (§ 59-22)

    A spring assisted knife may fall under that law.


    Please see the argument laid out here.
    Legal Insurrection | Freddie Gray | Unlawful Arrest | Probable Cause


    Yes. The videos I posted earlier are there for review.





    The folks replying indicates that is not true.
    Dershowitz position indicates that is not true.
    The FOP's position indicates that is not true.
    Etc ...
    So why are you speaking untruths?
    Never mind, I know.
    Again, she specificaly stated that his possesion of the knife did not violate the laws. I don't think there is any reason to question her integrity at this point.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    As you already know, she did not say that.
    This is what she said, verbatim: "Knife, not switchblade, was found clipped to Gray's pants pocket; was legal."
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Again, she specificaly stated that his possesion of the knife did not violate the laws. I don't think there is any reason to question her integrity at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    This is what she said, verbatim: "Knife, not switchblade, was found clipped to Gray's pants pocket; was legal."
    No. What she said was already quoted, verbatim.

    Ms. Mosby said,
    “The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us...osecutors.html

    That may be a misdirection as it was not Maryland law he was charged under. It was City Code.


    Then the actual code, as provided, may be applicable (spring assisted is more than likely to fall under that law), and even if not that does not mean there was no probable cause, as probable cause can be based on a mistake.
    Last edited by Excon; 05-02-15 at 03:03 PM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The prosecutor stated that the knife, or his possesion of it did not violate local law. "Running from the police" could just have been "running"...it is not illegal to run. The cops testimony that it was "after eye contact was made" is fairly irrelevant. If the cops had no real reason to suspect that he was involved in a crime, they had no probable cause to interact with him in any way.



    It is only possible to detain for identification if there is probable cause that the suspect was commiting a crime. ID laws do not give cops blanket authority to "check your papers" at will. They must have a reason to ask for identification.
    Lets say that is true. Is that reason to charge these officers with a crime? Is that common? Seems to me that they should face disciplinary action but false imprisonment is absurd and there is no way they will be found guilty of that. The issue here is the mans death, what caused it and who is responsible. If its the driver-and it seems to be-then the criminal charges should be applied to him only. Nothing else that appears to have happen at the hands of the other officers seems to warrant criminal prosecution. Overcharging is going to cause more problems then it hoped to solve when virtually all the charges are dropped.

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Well good. At least finally the media is reporting on black on black violence then.
    The media has always reported on it but this is totally different. Did you even know that 3 of the officers charged were black until that was mentioned? Did the news you watch even mention that or show this picture:

    02baltimore_officers2-articleLarge-v3.jpg

    edit: quoted myself for some reason originally
    Last edited by JohnWOlin; 05-02-15 at 03:03 PM.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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