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Thread: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

  1. #141
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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    [B]The Prosecutor may be misleading people here.
    No it was not illegal by Maryland law. It may have been illegal by City Ordinance.
    While it may have a folding blade it still may fit into the category of illegal by the definition of switch-blade in that statute. That remains to be seen.
    Excellent point.

    I have lived in jurisdictions where folding knives over a certain length were illegal to carry concealed (folding hunter style Buck knives needed to be carried in a sheath that was at least somewhat visible). Likewise Gray had an extensive arrest history. It is quite possible that he was on probation.

    As such, some of the terms to his probation could have been:

    - You are subject to arrest if you violate any of the adminstrative terms of your probation. Attempting to evade the police could well be an administrative violation of his probation. In addition, he could have failed to identify himself (running could be considered failure to ID?)
    Last edited by Cryptic; 05-02-15 at 08:38 AM.

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    That certainly needs to be rooted out. I guess we country people don't see much of that. My last interface with the police was a couple of weeks ago when I falied to turn off my security system. The deputy showed up. I thanked him, apologized for my action, invited him for coffee and had good conversation. A few years ago I was stopped for speeding. The cop asked me if I was in a hurry. I said no. I was just going to the post office. No excuse. He commented that most people lied and suggested I probably didn't need a ticket or a lecture and that I should enjoy the afternoon. Pretty boring for the police out here I guess. We did have a murder about 10 years ago but luckily it wasn't at my house. Not exactly the same as Baltimore.
    t
    Well I live in a small town and had a similar run in after speeding. Deputy asked me why, I told him I had no excuse, other than I promised my wife I would get back and that I deserved a ticket. He was very pleasant and told me to be safe and sent me on my way (I suspect he let me go for the same reason). Funny thing though. Right as he said he wasn't going to ticket me and was handing my licence back, a car passed him so close that the wind from the car passing made him lose his balance. He looked at me and said, "there is a person that deserves a ticket!".
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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers « CBS Baltimore



    The medical examiner ruled it was homicide.

    Also, there are charges of negligent homicide, abuse of authority, etc.

    It was an unlawful arrest, they claim, and their negligence concerning his safety when riding in the police van resulted in his death. They didn't put him in a seat belt, and he apparently fell in the van and broke his neck.

    The charges seem appropriate.
    What struck me is that they had no real reason to arrest him to begin with. My ex-cop, cop worshipping, coworker even agreed the charges were appropriate.
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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    Is there anyone that disputes that officers are responsible for the health and well-being of their prisoners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Conflation. No one said they weren't, but you are conflating that with Gray being responsible for his actions which brought about his death.
    Which actions did Mr. Gray take that put his live in danger? I mean, if you can make that argument, then I can simply turn it around and make the same argument.....If the police had simply rendered/ called for medical attention, Mr. Gray would most likely still be alive and 6 police wouldn't be facing some pretty serious charges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    That isn't a law.
    Actually contributing to the death of a person via carelessness, either by accident or intentional is, in fact, against the law.

    That's like saying there is no law that says you can't cut down a tree, but if someone is at the top, and you know they are and they die as a result, that is against the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    They observed what appeared to be a drug deal and they bolted. Chase was given, he resisted and he was found in possession of a knife which was believed to be illegal.
    If the Officer was wrong that puts the arrest in the category of a mistake, not an illegal arrest.
    But it is definitely not known if he was mistaken or not.
    Yes a drug deal suspiciously short of drugs....hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    That remains to be seen, but it is not a criminal violation.
    Again, the criminal part isn't that they violated policy, it's that someone allegedly has died for failure to implement the policy.
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary (or faith) depends upon his not understanding it.”

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    What struck me is that they had no real reason to arrest him to begin with. My ex-cop, cop worshipping, coworker even agreed the charges were appropriate.
    Too early to tell. The concealed carry of a folding knife over a certain length can be a violation of some city ordinances.

    Likewise, Gray could very well have been on probation (he had been arrested 18 times, with the last arrest in 2015). As such, it is possible that the terms of his probation included being subject to arrest if he were to violate any of the adminsitrative terms of it.

    Administrative violations could well include:
    - carrying a concealed weapon of any type
    - failure to "ID" (also a seperate misdemeanor criminal offense)
    - attempting to evade police questioning about your probation status etc
    Last edited by Cryptic; 05-02-15 at 09:08 AM.

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I don't think medical examiners rule anything a homicide. Medical examiners determine cause of death. The PA claims sufficient evidence to prosecute for the listed crimes. Including homicide. Courts and juries decide the who and what.

    As of now, the police have not been charged or tried or convicted.
    Yes, the medical examiner ruled it homicide. See paragraph 13 of the following:

    Six Baltimore police officers charged in Freddie Gray's death - Baltimore Sun

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Too early to tell. The concealed carry of a folding knife over a certain length can be a violation of some city ordinances.
    She talked about that. She said it was legal to posses, regardless, the cops didn't know he had it on him when they pursued him. Not probable cause.

    Likewise, Gray could very well have been on probation (he had been arrested 18 times, with the last arrest in 2015). As such, it is possible that the terms of his probation included being subject to arrest if he were to violate any of the adminsitrative terms of it.

    Administrative violations could well include:
    - carrying a concealed weapon of any type
    - failure to "ID" (also a seperate misdemeanor criminal offense)
    - attempting to evade police questioning about your probation status etc
    The cops don't have a right to question anyone without probable cause....they didn't have it.
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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    She talked about that. She said it was legal to posses
    She specifically said state law allowed it to be possessed (and it clearly is legal to possess it). The manner in which it is possessed, however, can be a violation of city ordinances.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The cops don't have a right to question anyone without probable cause....they didn't have it.
    Gray ran upon noticing the cops. This may well give the police probable cause to stop Gray and to attempt to identify him, thus leading to questions on his probation status, the concealed knife etc.

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    Is there anyone that disputes that officers are responsible for the health and well-being of their prisoners?



    Which actions did Mr. Gray take that put his live in danger? I mean, if you can make that argument, then I can simply turn it around and make the same argument.....If the police had simply rendered/ called for medical attention, Mr. Gray would most likely still be alive and 6 police wouldn't be facing some pretty serious charges.



    Actually contributing to the death of a person via carelessness, either by accident or intentional is, in fact, against the law.

    That's like saying there is no law that says you can't cut down a tree, but if someone is at the top, and you know they are and they die as a result, that is against the law.



    Yes a drug deal suspiciously short of drugs....hmmmmm



    Again, the criminal part isn't that they violated policy, it's that someone allegedly has died for failure to implement the policy.
    Im not sure why the guy was arrested, but he was no stranger to handcuffs. He led police on a foot chase and had to be tazed in order to be subdued. But I don't see why the officers had to be charged with 'wrongful imprisonment.' That seems way over the top and will almost certainly be dismissed. If the guy died because of injuries that took place in the van due to intentional action by the driver, then the driver should be charged and the others should just face disciplinary hearings within the department at most. This overzealous prosecutor has simply set the stage for acquittals that will only reinforce the idea that the system is flawed, when in truth, it is her charges that were flawed.

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    Re: City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Ok you have a "rule" IE a guideline but do you have an actual statute which states he had to be buckled in? This would be like if I decided to stand up in the back of a moving pick up truck and ended up breaking my neck and then trying to charge the driver for negligent homicide because I was a ****ing idiot, it's asinine and no I'm not a huge fan of law enforcement myself but this case is not analogous to that POS who shot the guy in the back and the like and it certainly isn't a racial issue as some are trying to make it considering that Baltimore's government and police force have if not a majority a proportional African American representation.
    In point of fact, any time this sort of negligence results in death it could result in criminal charges. But it seldom does because prosecutors seldom think it rises to the level of criminality. This case, though, is exceptional.

    No, it's not a racial thing even though the mob thinks it is. Three of the six officers charged are black. The one officer charged with murder is black.

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