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Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

kjwins said:
We are an Empire in Decline. One of the signs is hero Worship of Police & Military. You can see that all over this thread. Your right somethings got to give, more than likely an economic collapse.

Funny how people all over the world see it. Most of America is in a propaganda coma, but people are starting to wake up.
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They're waking up to the ravages of Liberal Progressive policies. Proof is in the results of the 2014 Midterms.

Now people all over the world are getting a good look at the consequences of Decades of Democrat monopolies as they watch people trash a City and its officers based on a hunch.

Good. Light disinfects.
 
Fenton said:
They're waking up to the ravages of Liberal Progressive policies. Proof is in the results of the 2014 Midterms.

Now people all over the world are getting a good look at the consequences of Decades of Democrat monopolies as they watch people trash a City and its officers based on a hunch.

Good. Light disinfects.
Click to expand...

See what I mean by Right Wing Hate propaganda. This guy thinks Obama has power. When he just works for the corporate state, just like GWB.
 
kjwins said:
See what I mean by Right Wing Hate propaganda. This guy thinks Obama has power. When he just works for the corporate state, just like GWB.
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The truth is the differences between your two political parties (that generate such immense sound and fury here) are miniscule given ultimately they serve only themselves and the needs their financial backers. The real world and the concerns of the average voter come a long way second to those ends. Here in the UK our system isn't perfect either but it certainly isn't as broken as yours (yet) thankfully :(
 
Excon said:
That is myth.
Click to expand...

You do realize criminals are not the most trust worthy people? that is why they are in jail or prison in the first place.

They are no more or less liars than those in the general public.
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A snitch's testimony can get him or herself a more lenient sentence. That means they have a lot of motivation to lie.

There is nothing to suggest that is the case.

His statement was known from the beginning and was obtained through investigation.
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The guy is facing jail or prison time.Are you trying to tell me that he would not have any motivation to lie in order to get a more lenient sentence?
 
....and THAT is how you get off YOUR charges;)
 
jamesrage said:
You do realize criminals are not the most trust worthy people? that is why they are in jail or prison in the first place.
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Oh Gawd. No.
Each individual must be judge based on their individual circumstances.


Most cases are resolved through plea. You do understand that right?
That is them admitting to their crime.
Which is being truthful.
By that fact alone you could say that most are truthful.


jamesrage said:
A snitch's testimony can get him or herself a more lenient sentence. That means they have a lot of motivation to lie.


The guy is facing jail or prison time.Are you trying to tell me that he would not have any motivation to lie in order to get a more lenient sentence?
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All irrelevant, as there is nothing suggesting that is what happened. Do you or do you not understand that?

It was known from the beginning and obtained by investigation, not by promise of reduced anything.

That is was known from the beginning and obtained through investigative questioning is a pretty good indication that no prosecutor was involved to make any promises.

Without any information saying otherwise, the suggestion that it was made in trade for "whatever", is absurdity
 
Excon said:
Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

[...]​
Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was​



Maybe folks were to quick to blame police.
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the coroner's report was just released that finds that his fatal injury came from his being slammed into the police van. I believe they said there was a bolt on the van that matched the injury. The report does not indicate how this happened though his own actions appear to be the culprit
 
Lovebug said:
I am talking about him being alone in the van. Could he have gained enough momentum to brake his own neck?
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Oh, I see, Lovebug. I heard a newscaster supposedly quoting a doctor saying it would be impossible for someone to break their own neck. I'm not sure a doctor is qualified as an expert in that subject, however. My common sense tells me that people break their own necks falling all the time. I'd say it's very possible. But I'm no expert either. (Ha!)
 
Excon said:
Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

[...]​
Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was​

Maybe folks were to quick to blame police.
Click to expand...


joko104 said:
I do not believe it is possible to break your own neck by slamming your head against a wall nor collapsing your own throat when handcuffed.

There are millions of dollars, prosecutions of police, and probably lost higher-up jobs, plus riots to deal with. In short, I do not believe he broke his own neck and collapsed his own throat.

But you tell me how a handcuffed person in the immediately presence of police could break his own neck and collapse his own throat if you want to believe that. It's as believable as claiming someone shot themselves in the back of the head 3 times. I think making this explanation is just going to piss people off even more.

It is interesting to see how quickly two members who claim people who are arrested lie, but absolutely believe this prisoner as if the edict from God himself.
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kjwins said:
This takes 10 days to come out, & its from the corporate media? OH it has to be the truth. LOL
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While it's true that some convicts, believing they can later claim police brutality, have attempted to inflict harm unto themselves while in police custody, it's difficult to believe that this young man could have inflicted such severe damage unto himself, i.e., breaking his own neck and nearly crush his voice box, from the brief time he was in the custody of the Baltimore PD (30 minutes). Even if all he was doing was banging his head against the walls of the police van there's no way he'd cause that kind of damage to himself, not without assistance (i.e., van took an unexpected sharp turn). But even that would point to negligence on the part of Baltimore's finest since they failed to secure their suspect during transport as required by law.

So, while I hear you, I disagree with your assessment.
 
Objective Voice said:
it's difficult to believe that this young man could have inflicted such severe damage unto himself, i.e., breaking his own neck and nearly crush his voice box, from the brief time he was in the custody of the Baltimore PD (30 minutes). Even if all he was doing was banging his head against the walls of the police van there's no way he'd cause that kind of damage to himself, not without assistance (i.e., van took an unexpected sharp turn). But even that would point to negligence on the part of Baltimore's finest since they failed to secure their suspect during transport as required by law.

So, while I hear you, I disagree with your assessment.
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Nonsense.
But since you think otherwise; Prove it.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...uffered-head-injury-police-transport-van.html


And watch the reporters video at this link.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/0...s-result-of-police-who-arrested-him-prob.html
 
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kjwins said:
See what I mean by Right Wing Hate propaganda. This guy thinks Obama has power. When he just works for the corporate state, just like GWB.
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Your'e in the wrong section of the for conspiracy theories. Anyway, so because I disagree with you now my speech is " hate " ?

Hate pushing nonsensical conspiracy theories and false narratives about " Murder by Cop " at the expense of inner city Americans.
 
Excon said:
Nonsense.
But since you think otherwise; Prove it.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...uffered-head-injury-police-transport-van.html
Click to expand...

Well, the damage to his voice box could only come from external physical abuse. In other words, someone had to compress his larynx for that to happen.

As for the spinal injury at the neck, you try banging your head up against a wall - any wall will do - and see if you break your neck. At worse, you'll get a very bad headache, maybe a good size knot and/or a cut or gash at the point of impact. But you most certainly aren't going to break your neck as a result of your self inflicted wounds.

Go ahead...try it! (Might knock some sense into you, but you're not going to break your neck). Even mental patients who have done just that - constantly banged their head against the wall - have never broken their own neck. They may have caused other injuries, i.e., concussion, broken nose, head laceration, that sort of thing but break their own neck...NEVER!

Something else had to happen to this young man while in transit for him to sustain such severe damage to his throat and neck for his injuries to be fatal. You're just not going to get there by such self-inflicted damage as banging your head against a wall.
 
Objective Voice said:
Well, the damage to his voice box could only come from external physical abuse. In other words, someone had to compress his larynx for that to happen.

As for the spinal injury at the neck, you try banging your head up against a wall - any wall will do - and see if you break your neck. At worse, you'll get a very bad headache, maybe a good size knot and/or a cut or gash at the point of impact. But you most certainly aren't going to break your neck as a result of your self inflicted wounds.

Go ahead...try it! (Might knock some sense into you, but you're not going to break your neck). Even mental patients who have done just that - constantly banged their head against the wall - have never broken their own neck. They may have caused other injuries, i.e., concussion, broken nose, head laceration, that sort of thing but break their own neck...NEVER!

Something else had to happen to this young man while in transit for him to sustain such severe damage to his throat and neck for his injuries to be fatal. You're just not going to get there by such self-inflicted damage as banging your head against a wall.
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:doh
Besides you being wrong, and your asinity aside, go to the following link and watch the video report.
And than knock some sense into the way you see things.


UPDATE: Law enforcement sources say Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport van | WJLA.com
 
I apologize if this has been stated. I did not want to read threw 22 pages of this thread.


When I heard this report I immediately became skeptical. My first thought was I wonder what kind of hushed deal was worked out in this other prisoners potential case. It just seemed to convenient of a story. Perhaps its completely legit and that is what really transpired but I just see to much gained by both the police department and the other arrestee not to view it with some skepticism.
 
Baralis said:
My first thought was I wonder what kind of hushed deal was worked out in this other prisoners potential case. It just seemed to convenient of a story.
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There is nothing to suggest that is the case.

His statement was known from the beginning and was obtained through investigation.
 
Fenton said:
Your'e in the wrong section of the for conspiracy theories. Anyway, so because I disagree with you now my speech is " hate " ?

Hate pushing nonsensical conspiracy theories and false narratives about " Murder by Cop " at the expense of inner city Americans.
Click to expand...


No conspiracy

Yes your speech is " hate " But not because we disagree.

Do you really care about inner city Americans? Or a Rep agenda.
 
Objective Voice said:
Well, the damage to his voice box could only come from external physical abuse. In other words, someone had to compress his larynx for that to happen.

As for the spinal injury at the neck, you try banging your head up against a wall - any wall will do - and see if you break your neck. At worse, you'll get a very bad headache, maybe a good size knot and/or a cut or gash at the point of impact. But you most certainly aren't going to break your neck as a result of your self inflicted wounds.

Go ahead...try it! (Might knock some sense into you, but you're not going to break your neck). Even mental patients who have done just that - constantly banged their head against the wall - have never broken their own neck. They may have caused other injuries, i.e., concussion, broken nose, head laceration, that sort of thing but break their own neck...NEVER!

Something else had to happen to this young man while in transit for him to sustain such severe damage to his throat and neck for his injuries to be fatal. You're just not going to get there by such self-inflicted damage as banging your head against a wall.
Click to expand...

I am very very Skeptical of this new meme. Having said that, I just recently watched a video of a guy being put into the back of a squad car who didn't know he was being taped. He slammed his head in the top of the squad car several times opening a heavily bleeding gash in his forehead -- and I'm going to assume breaking his nose.

If the guy was determined to do damage, running head down into one of the walls a few times could do some serious damage...
 
Excon said:
:doh
Besides you being wrong, and your asinity aside, go to the following link and watch the video report.
And than knock some sense into the way you see things.


UPDATE: Law enforcement sources say Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport van | WJLA.com
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First off, I am not wrong about whether or not Freddie Gray (or any one else for that matter) could possibly break their own neck by purposely banging their head against a wall, any wall. It just does not happen. You may sustain some serious injuries as a result of your self-inflicted wounds, but you are NOT going to break your neck. It simply does not happen.

Second, you may wish to re-read my initial post to this thread because I think you misconstrued how I've articulated how I believe Mr. Gray's neck was broken. Here, allow me:

Objective Voice said:
As for the spinal injury at the neck...Something else had to happen to this young man while in transit for him to sustain such severe damage to his throat and neck for his injuries to be fatal. You're just not going to get there by such self-inflicted damage as banging your head against a wall.
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I get the impression that you believe I'm accusing the Baltimore PD for causing him physical harm, towit: the Baltimore PD physically assaulted Freddie Gray and broke his neck. If that is what you assume I was implying, you'd be wrong. I simply said something had to have happened to him while he was in transit to the police station. Were the police driving erratically? Maybe. Did they take a sudden sharp turn, make a sudden stop or acceleration that might have throw Mr. Gray off balance causing him to lose his footing and bump his head with lethal force against the wall? Very plausible. In fact, the link video you provided concludes that's exactly what happened.

Sources said the medical examiner found Gray's catastrophic injury was caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van, apparently breaking his neck; a head injury he sustained matches a bolt in the back of the van.
Click to expand...

Read more: Law enforcement sources say Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport van | WJLA.com

So, while you're trying to make me look foolish, maybe you should re-examine why you were so quick to accept another "thug's" account of Mr. Gray's self-inflicted wounds before you subsequently discovered this video.
 
MaggieD said:
I am very very Skeptical of this new meme. Having said that, I just recently watched a video of a guy being put into the back of a squad car who didn't know he was being taped. He slammed his head in the top of the squad car several times opening a heavily bleeding gash in his forehead -- and I'm going to assume breaking his nose.

If the guy was determined to do damage, running head down into one of the walls a few times could do some serious damage...
Click to expand...

But that's NOT what the other suspect who accompanied Mr. Gray said happened. There was no running start head-first into a wall. Mr. Gray allegedly was seated in the back of the police van banging his head into the interior wall.

In any case, I've already stated that sometimes convicts will attempt to inflict harm unto themselves and then claim police brutality. (See post #210) But the severity of Mr. Gray's throat and neck injuries were too traumatic to be self-inflicted. There's just no way you can break your neck by repeatedly banging your head against a wall.
 
Objective Voice said:
First off, I am not wrong about whether or not Freddie Gray (or any one else for that matter) could possibly break their own neck by purposely banging their head against a wall, any wall. It just does not happen. You may sustain some serious injuries as a result of your self-inflicted wounds, but you are NOT going to break your neck. It simply does not happen.
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Yes you were wrong.
You clearly stated the following which is wrong.
"Well, the damage to his voice box could only come from external physical abuse. In other words, someone had to compress his larynx for that to happen."​

Supposedly, his fall after breaking his neck did that.


As for this banging argument and requiring something else. :doh
He is thrashing about and slips.
That is still a result of his banging.
He is ramming/banging his head agaisnt the rear door and slams it into the bolt, shifting and concentrating the force breaking his neck.
Still the result of his ramming/banging.


Objective Voice said:
I simply said something had to have happened to him while he was in transit to the police station. Were the police driving erratically? Maybe. Did they take a sudden sharp turn, make a sudden stop or acceleration that might have throw Mr. Gray off balance causing him to lose his footing and bump his head with lethal force against the wall? Very plausible.
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This is you not paying attention to the previously provided info.

Again:
Batts said another man who was in the van during the tail end of Gray's ride told investigators that Gray was "was still moving around, that he was kicking and making noises" up until the van arrived at the station. Batts said the man also said the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically."
Freddie Gray death: Baltimore police prisoner transport under scrutiny - World - CBC News​

That is the evidence, not something else.


Objective Voice said:
In fact, the link video you provided concludes that's exactly what happened.
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No. "naughty In fact it makes no such conclusion that this was cause by the movement of the van.
The report clearly stated "and for some reason, went flying in the van".

Some reason! And as the evidence says the van was not being driven erratically, speeding or making sudden stops, the focus goes right back Gray's actions.


Objective Voice said:
So, while you're trying to make me look foolish, maybe you should re-examine why you were so quick to accept another "thug's" account of Mr. Gray's self-inflicted wounds before you subsequently discovered this video.
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The only one that can make you look foolish is you by your replies.

And this nonsense about believing another thug is just that, nonsense.
For some reason people do not understand that there needs to be something there to question any persons word.
Simple speculation is not sufficient.
As it stands, it is evidence, and it happens to coincide with the physical evidence.
 
 
Fenton said:
They're waking up to the ravages of Liberal Progressive policies. Proof is in the results of the 2014 Midterms.

Now people all over the world are getting a good look at the consequences of Decades of Democrat monopolies as they watch people trash a City and its officers based on a hunch.

Good. Light disinfects.
Click to expand...

kjwins said:
No conspiracy

Yes your speech is " hate " But not because we disagree.

Do you really care about inner city Americans? Or a Rep agenda.
Click to expand...

What's " hateful " about my language ? Be specific.

Because personally I think your just reverting to childish hyperbole because youre incabale of intelligently defending this twisted world view that you have.

Your only defense is to fall back on childish generalizations and buzzwords like " hate " in a attempt to shut down any opposition from those who disagree with you.

Its almost as irrelevent and innefective as constantly bringing up Bush.
 
Excon said:
Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

[...]​
Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was​



Maybe folks were to quick to blame police.
Click to expand...

You'd prefer to blame the dead guy, I guess. Remind me again, what colour was he?

Ah, now it makes sense.
 
Andalublue said:
You'd prefer to blame the dead guy, I guess. Remind me again, what colour was he?

Ah, now it makes sense.
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Absurd reply.

The arresting Officers did not cause the injury as almost everyone jumped to conclusion of.
 
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