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Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

Summerwind said:
Please clarify. Are you recognizing that the affidavit is and affidavit of a cop relaying what he claims he was told? Or do you think the affidavit is by the prisoner the cop claims told him that Gray threw himself around in the van?
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I've personally conducted research involving secondary confessions. I've written and presented research on secondary and false confessions. I've read hundreds of articles from academic, news, and government sources. I've assisted with the review of police reports evaluating eyewitness and secondary confession evidence for expert testimony presented at trial. I believe I am qualified to differentiate between a witness statement and the statement of a secondary informant (e.g., a snitch).
 
flogger said:
The numbers speak for themselves they need no bias in their interpretation
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No. You are again speaking biased bs.
The numbers do not indicate any wrong doing.
 
Excon said:
No. You are again speaking biased bs.
The numbers do not indicate any wrong doing.
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The police in the US kill around a hundred times more people per capita than in any other developed nation on Earth

U.S. Cops Kill at 100 Times the Rate of Other Capitalist Countries | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

They are not averse to fiddling those appalling figures either

Police killed more than twice as many people as reported by US government | US news | The Guardian

I'd call that 'wrong doing' :shock:
 
Excon said:
:doh
You are speaking biased bs.
Our laws are different and allow such force to be used.
And as the RT [SUB](d'oh!)[/SUB] reporter stated that does not indicate whether or not these deaths were justified or not.
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Well gawd damn, and Ex sure does love that licence, the rest (that would be rational Americans) want to see reform to the STUPID law then. One way or another, we will prevail, and the police will be held accountable to their departments code of conduct. It's obvious that you condone police abuse. And every time it comes up, you're the out front apologist, excusing, denying, lying, twisting, ignoring, dismissing and blowing smoke!
 
Ikari said:
The police admit that they did not restrain him properly, which means even if Gray himself was thrashing about under his own decisions, they contributed to that by not following protocol and not restraining him properly. They also admit that they didn't seek medical attention quickly enough.
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No.
You haven't refuted anything.
Again there may be a justifiable reason for not seat belting him
And not doing so does not automatically mean they are responsible for his injuries.
And they did get him medical attention fast enough once they knew he was actually injured.


Ikari said:
And if there is GPS, then we should be able to know for sure.
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No. GPS is not going to tell you if they were swerving or not or hitting every bump and pot-hole.
The only thing you are going to get from GPS is position which may allow them to calculate speed.
But that time line is already online. Link
So we have a witness who says the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically".
So unless there is something else that is what we go with.


Ikari said:
Had they followed protocol and restrained him properly, there would be no question as to what happened in the van.
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Your analysis is after the fact.
Again, they may have had a reason for not following protocol.


Ikari said:
So if the other prisoner is telling the truth, then something happened AFTER the van got to where it was going to end Gray's life.
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No. Because it is reported that he went silent when they arrived. So it would have happened on his last thrash.


Ikari said:
nothing can exonerate the actions of the police.
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That is an assumption.
 
Montecresto said:
Former Detective Sues Baltimore Police Department and Commissioner, Alleging Retaliation From Colleagues For Testifying About Police Abuse
PoliticsUSBy: Annabelle Bamforth Dec 29, 2014 17

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...-rat-police-brutality-claim-article-1.2077632
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Watch, the guy arrested along with Freddy, who now has become the star witness for the apologists, will suggest this detective is just a disgruntled former employee, and as such has no credibility, lol.
 
Excon said:
No.
You haven't refuted anything.
Again there may be a justifiable reason for not seat belting him
And not doing so does not automatically mean they are responsible for his injuries.
And they did get him medical attention fast enough once they knew he was actually injured.
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For not following protocol that endangers the life of the restrained suspect? Hmmm, maybe. But it seems to me like they didn't really want to. I mean, they got leg irons on him; so they were able to control him well enough to bind him. They just broke protocol and didn't properly restrain him, allowing the events to unfurl.

Excon said:
No. GPS is not going to tell you if they were swerving or not or hitting every bump and pot-hole.
The only thing you are going to get from GPS is position which may allow them to calculate speed.
But that time line is already online. Link
So we have a witness who says the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically".
So unless there is something else that is what we go with.
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Yes, GPS can calculate speed, acceleration, and path. It may not show ever little bump, but it can show the path taken and the speeds traveled.

Excon said:
Your analysis is after the fact.
Again, they may have had a reason for not following protocol.
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Being what? To risk the life of the suspect, it would have to be a damned good reason.

Excon said:
No. Because it is reported that he went silent when they arrived. So it would have happened on his last thrash.


That is an assumption.
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Hmm, yes. All the way to he was kicking and screaming. And there is no assumption, nothing that is presented as of yet exonerates the police. That's a fact.
 
flogger said:
The police in the US kill around a hundred times more people per capita than in any other developed nation on Earth

U.S. Cops Kill at 100 Times the Rate of Other Capitalist Countries | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

They are not averse to fiddling those appalling figures either

Police killed more than twice as many people as reported by US government | US news | The Guardian

I'd call that 'wrong doing' :shock:
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And again, you are speaking biased bs. That does not indicate wrong doing.
 
Fenton said:
Riot away then.....

Unreal.
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That riot started because the city & police shut down the subway & buses, they even ordered high school kids off of some buses. So lets stop these kids from getting home & confront them in police riot gear. I wonder what would happen, a riot maybe?

Also, you wont see it on Fox News, but the cops were throwing rocks at the people also.
 
Montecresto said:
Who's advocating rioting? Every time this happens, those of us that want to see police abuse, corruption and excess cleaned up, (which I'm permanently amazed that it's not everybody) the point is also made that rioting and looting is the ultimate stupidity, is counter productive, and moves the focus away from the police abuse, and onto the rioting. Nevertheless, we must remain focused on police abuse.
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You can't be serious.

Those who continue to perpetuate this false narrative of disproportionate Police brutality against Black men and who demand " justice " KNOW that the there is a huge potential for these communities to explode in violence.

That includes the President and Democrats.

Its surreal. After the damage is done, and while the law abiding citizens of these communities have to pick up the pieces from the STUPIDITY the Obama administration sends out a set of rules to Police Officers on how not to be a racist.

Its bizzaro world. There's nothing said about what really led these communities to explode in violence. Nothing is done to address the poverty and crime. The Police are blamed ( whether they did anything or not ) and its on to the next inner city who's thanks to the idiot " hands up dont shoot " crowd one false allegation of Police brutality away from a riot.
 
Montecresto said:
Well gawd damn, and Ex sure does love that licence, the rest (that would be rational Americans) want to see reform to the STUPID law then. One way or another, we will prevail, and the police will be held accountable to their departments code of conduct.
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There you go speaking that nonsense again.
And no, rational Americans do not go around making false claims of abuse and jumping to conclusions like those on your side do.


Montecresto said:
It's obvious that you condone police abuse.
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:doh
Now you are straight up lying.


Montecresto said:
And every time it comes up, you're the out front apologist, excusing, denying, lying, twisting, ignoring, dismissing and blowing smoke!
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Yes, that is what you do to claim abuse.
 
Excon said:
And again, you are speaking biased bs. That does not indicate wrong doing.
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Then what would indicate wrong doing for you I wonder, or is it just 'biased BS' to even suggest it ? :roll:

More ....

Police in the US Kill Citizens at Over 70 Times the Rate of Other First-World Nations | The Free Thought Project

Your police forces use grossly excessive force on far too many occasions and do it with virtual impunity because people like you seem to want to cheer them on from the sidelines :(
 
flogger said:
The police in the US kill around a hundred times more people per capita than in any other developed nation on Earth

U.S. Cops Kill at 100 Times the Rate of Other Capitalist Countries | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

They are not averse to fiddling those appalling figures either

Police killed more than twice as many people as reported by US government | US news | The Guardian

I'd call that 'wrong doing' :shock:
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Outside of your deeply flawed and in the CRG's case, fanatical claims, at least you can be thankful you're in England.
 
Fenton said:
You can't be serious.

Those who continue to perpetuate this false narrative of disproportionate Police brutality against Black men and who demand " justice " KNOW that the there is a huge potential for these communities to explode in violence.

That includes the President and Democrats.

Its surreal. After the damage is done, and while the law abiding citizens of these communities have to pick up the pieces from the STUPIDITY the Obama administration sends out a set of rules to Police Officers on how not to be a racist.

Its bizzaro world. There's nothing said about what really led these communities to explode in violence. Nothing is done to address the poverty and crime. The Police are blamed ( whether they did anything or not ) and its on to the next inner city who's thanks to the idiot " hands up dont shoot " crowd one false allegation of Police brutality away from a riot.
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To the bolded, who the **** said anything about that. Any police brutality is unacceptable to reasonable (the important part) Americans. Police brutality CANNOT BE PROPORTIONAL. Now, stop apologising for what the baltimore police chief himself has acknowledged.
 
kjwins said:
This takes 10 days to come out, & its from the corporate media? OH it has to be the truth. LOL
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It came out from the leftist media mouthpieces so that should make you sit up and pay attention. It sure wasn't squelched by them, which is often the case.
 
Excon said:
There you go speaking that nonsense again.
And no, rational Americans do not go around making false claims of abuse and jumping to conclusions like those on your side do.


:doh
Now you are straight up lying.


Yes, that is what you do to claim abuse.
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To the bolded. The police chief confessed that officers VIOLATED DEPARTMENT CODE OF CONDUCT!! You're the one deficient of credibility.
 
kjwins said:
That riot started because the city & police shut down the subway & buses, they even ordered high school kids off of some buses. So lets stop these kids from getting home & confront them in police riot gear. I wonder what would happen, a riot maybe?

Also, you wont see it on Fox News, but the cops were throwing rocks at the people also.
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For a " thoughtful leftist " you sure are coming off as uncaring and cold hearted.

I mean, why would you offer up such a superficial explanation without acknowledging the decades of poverty that these inner city areas have had to contend with ?

The riots started because of the decades of Democrat policies that have left inner city areas with a disproportionate amount of crime, poverty and dependence.

The riots started because a false narrative of " Police brutality " has been reinforced exponentially by Politicians, activist and idiots looking to capitalize on the destruction and violence that now occurs on a whim.

After " Hands up dont shoot " was proven to be a lie the Obama administration sent out a list of rules to the LEOs on how not to be a " racist ".

What about the people that now have to live in a burned out neighborhood ? What about the underlying issues that created such desperation, corruption and lawlessness ?

Alll ignored by the Obama administration and Eric Holde because to address it would mean acknowledging that their policies or policies that they support created this mess in the first place.
 
ocean515 said:
Outside of your deeply flawed and in the CRG's case, fanatical claims, at least you can be thankful you're in England.
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Indeed . Since 1900 some 52 people have been killed by police in England. Thats less than half the number killed by US law enforcement in March 2015 alone (111). Even allowing for six fold population disparity thats quite a statistic ! :shock:
 
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Lovebug said:
While I agree, we should let the truth get in the way of making false assumptions. Anything is possible. If the young man was on drugs and was combative, he may have injured himself in the process. Or he may have injured himself further. It is also possible that he was in severe pain and was trying to get someone's attention, and that is what the other prisoner heard.
So lets wait and see until all the facts are in.
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We probably won't see the facts because the only one, who knows what actually happened is dead. I don't think the cops ride chaperone in the paddy wagon with the prisoners.
 
Montecresto said:
To the bolded. The police chief confessed that officers VIOLATED DEPARTMENT CODE OF CONDUCT!! You're the one deficient of credibility.
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How would you know the police chief is telling the truth or merely cow towing to political correctness? There have been police chiefs, who have thrown their officers under the bus if it meant keeping their jobs. If these officers violated the code of conduct, why hasn't more evidence come out to that effect? It still seems like their actions are being kept under wraps.
 
Ikari said:
For not following protocol that endangers the life of the restrained suspect? Hmmm, maybe. But it seems to me like they didn't really want to. I mean, they got leg irons on him; so they were able to control him well enough to bind him. They just broke protocol and didn't properly restrain him, allowing the events to unfurl.
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Again; There may have been a reason for not doing so and not doing so does not automatically mean they are responsible for his injuries.


Ikari said:
Yes, GPS can calculate speed, acceleration, and path. It may not show ever little bump, but it can show the path taken and the speeds traveled.
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Again no.
GPS is not going to tell you if it was swerving or hitting every pot-hole and bump. We have witnesses for that.

Look, referring to the GPS is arguing nonsense. The route, time, and distance is already known.

As you were already informed, the time-lime is already online.

And we have a witness who states the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically".


Ikari said:
Being what? To risk the life of the suspect, it would have to be a damned good reason.
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A detainee who can not sit may just be a valid reason.


Ikari said:
Hmm, yes. All the way to he was kicking and screaming.
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The witness did not say kicking and screaming all the way.
He said it sounded like he was “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself".


Ikari said:
And there is no assumption,
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Yes you did make an assumption.
"nothing can exonerate the actions of the police." is an assumption.


Ikari said:
nothing that is presented as of yet exonerates the police. That's a fact.
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:doh
And nothing say they were the cause either.
 
CycloneWanderer said:
... this isn't a jailhouse informant ("snitch") situation at all. Jailhouse informants provide what is classified as a secondary confession (i.e., the suspect told me he did it or had information only the perpetrator of the crime would know). This is not that; this is a simple witness statement. A firsthand account of a situation is different than a secondhand retelling of a story.

The speal about having the police giving enticements to the witness to alter his story is unsupported speculation. Let's not start diving headfirst into unsupported hypothetical scenarios - it might just cause a riot.
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"Jailhouse snitch" is a colloquialism for the police/prosecution having somebody say something they want to help bolster their side. Whether it happens in the back of a squad car/van or in an actual jail is neither here nor there. Whether first-hand or second-hand is also pretty much irrelevant, though in this case Gray allegedly told this total random stranger his strategy, which would be no different than supposedly confessing to a stranger while in jail. Uh huh.

(Amazing that this has to be explained.)
 
flogger said:
Then what would indicate wrong doing for you I wonder, or is it just 'biased BS' to even suggest it ? :roll:

More ....

Police in the US Kill Citizens at Over 70 Times the Rate of Other First-World Nations | The Free Thought Project

Your police forces use grossly excessive force on far too many occasions and do it with virtual impunity because people like you seem to want to cheer them on from the sidelines :(
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Your claims are again biased bs.
Use of force does not indicate wrongdoing on the part of Police.
 
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