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Thread: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    25 shootings in Baltimore since the riots ended. Where are the protest ?

    Black lives matter, right ? Does Prince need to comeback and have another concert
    If you lived in a bad part of Baltimore (or any other area that is high in crime and gang activity) you would be aware of the fact that there are a huge number of community programs and efforts aimed at stopping violence. Jesse Jackson had a national tour to address "black on black" violence. I understand that you probably don't know these things because you only watch, listen to, and read things that you know will reinforce your preconceived and often inaccurate version of reality.
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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    If you lived in a bad part of Baltimore (or any other area that is high in crime and gang activity) you would be aware of the fact that there are a huge number of community programs and efforts aimed at stopping violence. Jesse Jackson had a national tour to address "black on black" violence. I understand that you probably don't know these things because you only watch, listen to, and read things that you know will reinforce your preconceived and often inaccurate version of reality.
    While searching for other information surrounding this Freddie Gray case (specifically, if Donte Allen was ever arrested when he was picked up around 9:11 am on the morning of April 12, 2015), I came across this YouTube video that might help to explain why Black residents in Baltimore, MD are behaving as they are to the Freddie Gray situation. Like Michael Brown's death in Ferguson, MO, Freddie Gray's death was the spark that lite the match and Black's in Baltimore have finally said, "Enough is Enough!".

    I don't live there and have never visited. So, I can't speak to their plight or what they've gone through. But the Black commentators in this video who are Baltimore residents candidly tell it like it is.

    You don't have to agree and you can certainly reject out of hand what the young man and woman say, but if you do I think you'd be missing an opportunity to learn and understand why Blacks in this area (and even Ferguson) feel the way they do and why this was a turning point for them to speak out and fight back against what they have long perceived as police brutality in their neighborhood.



    Sidenote: I remember reading an article on Donte Allen where he states that he was not arrested when he was picked up by Baltimore PD on the morning of April 12, 2015. If anyone can provide a link to such an article or a video where he makes such a statement, please post it here.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-13-15 at 03:02 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    If you lived in a bad part of Baltimore (or any other area that is high in crime and gang activity) you would be aware of the fact that there are a huge number of community programs and efforts aimed at stopping violence. Jesse Jackson had a national tour to address "black on black" violence. I understand that you probably don't know these things because you only watch, listen to, and read things that you know will reinforce your preconceived and often inaccurate version of reality.
    Lol !!

    25 shootings since the riots ? Yes, Jackson's really making a impact isn't he ? And so are those " community programs ".
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Again. What did you not understand about the reporter stating, "His statement is contained in an application for a search warrant."

    The quotes are attributed to the witness. Not anyone else.
    You're still talking about the affidavit that a police officer wrote, right?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Lol !!

    25 shootings since the riots ? Yes, Jackson's really making a impact isn't he ? And so are those " community programs ".
    I'm not sure what that has to do with what you're saying. I thought you said that nobody cared about black people killing other black people, but are you trying to say that you meant black people haven't stopped black people from killing other black people? You must have accidentally typed something completely different than what you meant to type.
    A working class hero is something to be

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You don't have to agree and you can certainly reject out of hand what the young man and woman say, but if you do I think you'd be missing an opportunity to learn and understand why Blacks in this area (and even Ferguson) feel the way they do and why this was a turning point for them to speak out and fight back against what they have long perceived as police brutality in their neighborhood.

    Understand?

    Most folks understand there is a difference between a reason and an excuse.
    The above was excuses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Sidenote: I remember reading an article on Donte Allen where he states that he was not arrested when he was picked up by Baltimore PD on the morning of April 12, 2015. If anyone can provide a link to such an article or a video where he makes such a statement, please post it here.
    He was arrested before being put into the van.
    It is the very reason why the van was called to pick him up.

    He said they made out a citation and didn't give it to him.





    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo​ View Post
    You're still talking about the affidavit that a police officer wrote, right?
    Why are you not paying attention?


    The author attributed the quoted to the witness.

    No one else.

    He did not say the Officer says he said that.
    He said, "His statement is contained in an application for a search warrant."

    The only correct interpretation of those words, becasue of the paragraph construction and quotations, was that the author was quoting the prisoner's words.

    But you already know this and continue to play your silly game.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Understand?

    Most folks understand there is a difference between a reason and an excuse.
    The above was excuses.
    Missed opportunity...

    'Nuff said.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice​ View Post
    Missed opportunity...

    'Nuff said.
    Excuses.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Why are you not paying attention?


    The author attributed the quoted to the witness.

    No one else.

    He did not say the Officer says he said that.
    He said, "His statement is contained in an application for a search warrant."

    The only correct interpretation of those words, becasue of the paragraph construction and quotations, was that the author was quoting the prisoner's words.

    But you already know this and continue to play your silly game.
    You are making an assumption that the officer is quoting Allen word-for-word. Without a recording, a transcript, or an affidavit signed by Allen, we have no idea what words he said or, really, even what the intent of his statement was. You see, that would be a quote - a firsthand source - if we had any of those things.

    Instead, we have an affidavit written by an officer paraphrasing what Allen said. If someone comes forward to dispute what someone else said they said, then this actual quote has far more legitimacy than the earlier, refuted statement.

    You have to start with the preconceived notion that Allen is lying in order to forward the idea that Allen must be lying, especially when considering the nature of the report and the relationship between the affidavit's author and the potential criminal misconduct perpetrated by the author's fellow officers.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Yay!
    And around and around we go with you playing your silly game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo​ View Post
    You are making an assumption that the officer is quoting Allen word-for-word.
    Wrong. You are the one assuming here.

    I am pointing out that the author attributed the quote to the witness.
    The author did. Period. That is not an assumption, but fact.
    You can't get around that.

    What I also did was acknowledge that the author may have badly worded his report, wrongly but still attributing the quote to the witness.
    So even if you "were correct that it was only the Officer relaying what he was told, your interpretation of how it was written is still wrong."



    Based on the information in the OP, this is your assumption.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo​ View Post
    Instead, we have an affidavit written by an officer paraphrasing what Allen said.
    What we had was the author attributing the quote to the witness.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo​ View Post
    You have to start with the preconceived notion that Allen is lying in order to forward the idea that Allen must be lying, especially when considering the nature of the report and the relationship between the affidavit's author and the potential criminal misconduct perpetrated by the author's fellow officers.
    Holy ****. Still lost I see.

    We have what has been attributed to him.
    Not just what was in the affidavit, but by the Commissioner as well.
    There is no indication that his recorded statement or the information revealed from it was tainted by any reason to lie.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo​ View Post
    If someone comes forward to dispute what someone else said they said, then this actual quote has far more legitimacy than the earlier, refuted statement.
    Wrong.
    Especially in the light of him proffering reason why he is saying what he is now (a reason to lie | tainted).
    That makes what he has said now far more suspect.

    So lets show everybody how you like going in circles.
    Everything above had already been addressed previously.

    The most recent post that addresses all of it was made in post #544.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No. It doesn't say that at all.

    The only correct interpretation of those words, because of the actual wording, paragraph construction and quotations, was that the author was quoting the prisoner's words.

    The quotes were attributed to the witness. "His statements". Not anyone else's.
    But of course you do not want to recognize that.

    Your argument based on the information in the OP is 100% wrong, and it is you who can't get around that fact.

    It wouldn't even matter if what you say turns out to be factual correct. Based on the wording, paragraph construction and quotations, the author was attributing the quotes to the witness.
    I even acknowledged that it may have been badly written, but the attribution was still to the witness. Not anyone else.


    1. Irrelevant argument in regards to whom the author attributed the quotes.
    2. An assumption on your part which is not consistent with the way the article was written.

    And as already pointed out, an Officer's sworn statement has far more credibility that the contrary statements the witness is now making. Just another thing that you can not get around.

    [...]

    The witness made it known why he was now saying what he was. It was to protect himself and that taints his denial.
    Contrasted with what he said earlier having no reason shown that he could be making it up, one is far more believable than the other.

    Whether you realize it or not, that is a clear distinction, which has nothing to do with anyone's skin color.

    And as I previously said, "if that information is ever given to a jury they will have far more reason to trust it than anything he says now".
    Absent information to the contrary, thinking otherwise is sheer lunacy.


    But please, continue with your silly silly game.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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