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Thread: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No you did not stay within the subject of that which we were discussing.
    Did the author of the provided article indicate the quotes came from the witness?
    The thread title is, " Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself".

    Your OP was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

    BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

    [...]

    Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was

    Maybe folks were to quick to blame police.
    The first two opening paragraphs to the linked OP article states:

    A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

    The prisoner was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him. His statement is contained in an application for a search warrant, which is sealed by the court. The Post was given the document under the condition that the prisoner not be named because the person who provided it feared for the inmate’s safety. But the prisoner, Donta Allen, 22, later spoke to the media, including The Post, and allowed himself to be identified.
    I've provided three additional articles that question whether Donta Allen was, in fact, the ear witness who made the above claim. Therefore, I'd say I'm definitely on point with the discussion topic.

    Now, can you provide a direct quote from Donta Allen where he made the claim that's being attributed to him or not?

    Can you provide a link that debunks this other ear witness from compartment #1 of the police van?
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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The thread title is, " Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself".
    [...]
    Therefore, I'd say I'm definitely on point with the discussion topic.

    No you were not on point.

    Pay attention.
    You quoted an exchange between me and another. You did not address the subject material of what we were discussing.


    Did the author of the provided article indicate the quotes came from the witness?
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    No you were not on point.

    Pay attention.
    You quoted an exchange between me and another. You did not address the subject material of what we were discussing.


    Did the author of the provided article indicate the quotes came from the witness?
    I think you're the one who needs to pay attention. My post #514, I quoted the OP not any portion of your dialog with Gonzo Rodeo or anyone else.

    The OP article does initially state the the witness was unknown, but later claims he had come forward and identified himself as Donta Allen. But I've provided you links to three other articles that brings the identity of the person whose words have been attributed to Donta Allen into question. So, again, can your provide a link to any article that substantiates Donta Allen saying those exact words that are being attributed to him? Because there clearly seems to be a conflict as to who really said them.

    Can you provide a link that debunks this alleged 38 yr old unidentified ear witness?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-10-15 at 05:51 PM.
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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    ...so, you're saying there is no quote from the witness?
    Read the article as you were already told.
    The quotes are there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The only correct interpretation of those words, becasue of the paragraph construction and quotations, was that the author was quoting the prisoner's words.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    What do you not understand about the article indicating the quotes belong to the witness?

    Huh?
    You still don't seem to understand what a quote is.

    I want to see a quote of Donta Allen's words, not a quote from the affidavit written by someone who is not Donta Allen.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I think you're the one who needs to pay attention.

    Wow. You are not even able to follow postings back to their source?
    That would be you who is not paying attention as usual.
    You quoted my exchange with another @ 520.
    What you replied with had nothing to do with what you quoted.
    That was the post in question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, again, can your provide a direct link to Donta Allen's words that are being attributed to him?

    You already acknowledged the quote had been attributed to him.
    Your words.
    "... that the quote that's been attributed to Donta Allen ..."

    So why are you playing this game when you already know?





    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    You still don't seem to understand what a quote is.
    Obviously you do not understand what quotation marks indicate.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    I want to see a quote of Donta Allen's words, not a quote from the affidavit written by someone who is not Donta Allen.
    The words were quoted.
    The reported did not indicate they came from the the person writing the affidavit.
    He indicated they came from the witness and clearly indicated that "his statement" was contained in the application.

    The only correct interpretation of those words, becasue of the actual wording, paragraph construction and quotations, was that the author was quoting the prisoner's words.
    But you do not want to admit that so go round and round with your absurd game.

    The author attributed those quotes to the witness. Period.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Obviously you do not understand what quotation marks indicate.


    The words were quoted.
    Whose? How is this clear? You haven't seen the affidavit; it wasn't released. Was it written in prose? A bulleted outline? Was it in the officer's words entirely? Did the officer include actual verbatim quotes of Allen or was he merely swearing to what he interpreted as Allen's sentiment?

    You can't know any of these things. To assume one way or another is to show everybody your preconceived notions.

    That's not good logic. That's not good debate.

    Oh, and Allen refuted the affidavit anyway. In a verbatim quote.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    To assume one way or another is to show everybody your preconceived notions.
    Wrong. This is still you refusing to admit that the author attributed the quotes to the witness.

    The reporter clearly indicated they came from the witness and clearly indicated that "his statement" was contained in the application.
    That is not some preconceived notion.
    It is the way it is written.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    That's not good logic. That's not good debate.
    Wow! Sad also.
    We are arguing the available information/evidence.
    The quotes were attributed to the witness. Denying that is not good debate or even logical.
    You can't change that. It is what we have to work with until more information becomes available.
    But becasue you don't like it, you want to play games. Sad.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Oh, and Allen refuted the affidavit anyway. In a verbatim quote.

    Just more nonsense from you. You already know what he now says lacks credibility.
    But way to show everybody what an illogical debate argument looks like.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Wow. You are not even able to follow postings back to their source?
    That would be you who is not paying attention as usual.
    You quoted my exchange with another @ 520.
    What you replied with had nothing to do with what you quoted.
    That was the post in question.
    I can see you're really into petty arguments.

    My foray into the later part of this discussion was at post #514 and was very relevant to the thread topic, towhich: "Who said Freddie Gray was banging (his head) against the van walls and believed he was trying to purposely injure himself." I provided three links that bring into question the claim that it was Donta Allen who made such a claim and I started with the very OP you provided. I can hardly see where my comments since post #514 are not in keeping with the overall discussion.


    You already acknowledged the quote had been attributed to him.
    Your words.
    "... that the quote that's been attributed to Donta Allen ..."

    So why are you playing this game when you already know?
    I did no such thing. I asked if the quote that's being attributed to him were, in fact, his words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    It's possible that the quote that's been attributed to Donta Allen were not his words but rather those of this yet to be identified ear witness. And if that is the case, we have a clear conflict as to what really happened during Freddie Gray's ride in the police van.
    Obviously you do not understand what quotation marks indicate.
    Your common MO seems to be to attack the poster's intelligence as if yours is superior. So far all you've managed to do is twist things around in what can only be deemed as a purposeful attempt to deflect and confuse. It's what you do.

    The words were quoted.
    The reported did not indicate they came from the the person writing the affidavit.
    He indicated they came from the witness and clearly indicated that "his statement" was contained in the application.
    And all I've asked was were those words spoken by Donte Allen or someone else? If you can provide a direct quote from Donte Allen where he said those exact words, I'm in your corner. Otherwise, all we have is the conflict that either he spoke them and have since recanted or they weren't his words at all but those of someone else that have wrongly been attributed to him.

    The only correct interpretation of those words, becasue of the actual wording, paragraph construction and quotations, was that the author was quoting the prisoner's words.
    Yeah, you've said this plenty of times before. But all it shows is you don't want to admit or even entertain the very possibility that there might have been someone else in compartment #1 of the van who made that claim eluding to Gray's alleged self-inflicted injuries. Why? Because if those words can be attributed to Donte Allen - the only other known detainee in the van with Freddie Gray - it fits perfectly with the narrative that Gray was irate and tried to injury himself and the only witness to back the police would have been Donte Allen. But since Donte refutes what's been attributed to him it brings the police accounting into question...even moreso if there's a third witness especially given the timeline of events particularly where Gray's neck injury reportedly occurred.

    But you do not want to admit that so go round and round with your absurd game.
    What's there to admit other than the possibility that someone's probably trying to hide the truth? I'm just asking questions here. I've never said Freddie Gray was innocent. I've just questioned the storyline given by those within the Baltimore Police Department as being the truth of the matter.

    The author attributed those quotes to the witness. Period.
    Yes the author did, but it's clear from a strict reading of the article the author could have been wrong.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-10-15 at 07:27 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wrong. This is still you refusing to admit that the author attributed the quotes to the witness.

    The reporter clearly indicated they came from the witness and clearly indicated that "his statement" was contained in the application.
    That is not some preconceived notion.
    It is the way it is written.


    Wow! Sad also.
    We are arguing the available information/evidence.
    The quotes were attributed to the witness. Denying that is not good debate or even logical.
    You can't change that. It is what we have to work with until more information becomes available.
    But becasue you don't like it, you want to play games. Sad.



    Just more nonsense from you. You already know what he now says lacks credibility.
    But way to show everybody what an illogical debate argument looks like.
    The article doesn't claim to quote Allen; it very clearly is quoting the affidavit written by the officer. One could make an argument that the affidavit might be quoting Allen, but without seeing it we can't know if they are Allen's words exactly or a retelling of Allen's story by the officer...which makes the affidavit a secondhand source, and the article a thirdhand source.

    Again, if you could quote Allen's words to me, this argument would be over. You would clearly have a solid, unrefutable point. That you refuse to do so is evidence that you can't. You obviously DO know what a quote is, and you obviously DO know that NO quotes from Allen have been provided. You cling to this idea that he isn't trustworthy now, but that narrative is only possible given a quote from him earlier...which you are unable to produce.

    Ya got nothing. And you aren't fooling anybody.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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