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Thread: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Best you just agree with these simple people and let them enjoy those voices in their heads.
    Yet there you are responding to him.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Still playing your dumb game. Figures.
    It has already been given. That is your fault for not paying attention.
    As you were already told, go find it, as you are not going to be given it again.
    You have even been pointed to it yet still ignore it.
    Reread the article and read what is quoted of him saying.
    So, where are Allen's words? You haven't provided them. You keep referring to a document that refers to his words.... But nobody has seen the document outside of the police department and one reporter from the Washington Post.

    Again, the only QUOTES provided anywhere from Allen refute what you wish to believe he said.

    You can win this argument simply by quoting Donta Allen. This you have not done.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    So, where are Allen's words? You haven't provided them. You keep referring to a document that refers to his words.... But nobody has seen the document outside of the police department and one reporter from the Washington Post.

    Again, the only QUOTES provided anywhere from Allen refute what you wish to believe he said.

    You can win this argument simply by quoting Donta Allen. This you have not done.
    Stop with your game.

    You know it was already provided.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Back to the same bs huh?
    Read the article.

    The only correct interpretation of those words, becasue of the paragraph construction and quotations, was that the author was quoting the prisoner's words.
    Last edited by Excon; 05-10-15 at 04:46 PM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

    BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

    [...]

    Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was

    Maybe folks were to quick to blame police.
    Upon reading the linked article, I suspected there might have been a third "ear witness" to what might have occurred during Freddie Gray's transport to the Baltimore police prescient. This updated article from theconservativetreehouse.com for the first time brings this third ear-witness more into light. However, this article from NYMag.com along with this article from theDailyKos.com states firmly that there was a third detainee in the first compartment of the police van whom Donta Allen, detainee #2 in the adjoining rear-left hand compartnet, wasn't aware.

    A controversial police document leaked to the Post on Wednesday said an unnamed second passenger in the van told police he heard Gray "banging against the walls" and believed he "was intentionally trying to injure himself." The other prisoner, 22-year-old Donta Allen, came forward on Thursday and confirmed that he heard banging when he got in the van. "When I got in the van, I didn't hear nothing. It was a smooth ride. We went straight to the police station. All I heard was a little banging for about four seconds. I just heard little banging, just little banging," Allen told WBAL. "I told homicide that. I don't work for the police. I did not tell the police nothing."
    Report: Freddie Gray Broke His Neck Inside Van -- NYMag

    If what theconservativetreehouse.com (formerly Brietbart.com) and NYMag.com reports are true, then the only time this unknown ear witness would have heard Freddie Gray "banging against the wall" would have been the 4 minutes between the time he was placed inside the police van (8:42 am) and the time the van made it's first stop (8:46 am)when Freddie Gray was being irate. And since Freddie Gray was placed on the floor after being shackled, it's reasonable to assume the banging he allegedly heard ceased (at least temporarily) from 8:46 - 8:59 am. It wasn't until the 4th stop at 8:59 am that Freddie Gray was placed back on the bench seat of the van when Officer Porter assisted him up. But by then per the timeline of events, Freddie Gray had already sustain his neck injury at 8:54 am. It could be argued that Freddie Gray was still being "combative or irate" at the 4th (and/or 5th stop which does not have a time stamp), but it bears noting that at no other time subsequent to this first stop do the police or any other detainee report that Freddie Gray continued in his former irate state.

    According to Donta Allen, the only other identified "ear-witness" to this case, he states firmly that:

    "When I got in the van, I didn't hear nothing. It was a smooth ride. We went straight to the police station. All I heard was a little banging for about four seconds. I just heard little banging, just little banging."
    So, assuming that there was a third unknown, unidentified ear witness in police van compartment #1 and that events hold true per the timeline as report, this witness would have had only a few minutes to discern what he heard coming from compartment #2. Furthermore, it's likely this would have been the only time any discernible sounds of loud banging would have come from compartment #2 since Freddie Gray was shackled and on the floor for up to 7 minutes prior to sustaining his neck injury and 15 minutes before Officer Porter placed him back up on the bench seat.

    (Continued...post #517)
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-10-15 at 04:55 PM. Reason: additional text exceed max length per post
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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Stop with your game.

    You know it was already provided.
    You know you can't provide his words. You know you havent seen his words.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    You know you can't provide his words. You know you havent seen his words.
    You clearly do no t pay attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Back to the same bs huh?
    Read the article.

    The only correct interpretation of those words, becasue of the paragraph construction and quotations, was that the author was quoting the prisoner's words.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    (Continued...)

    There's something else that needs to be considered and that is the testimony from the initial unidentified ear witness. From the DailyKos.com:

    Jayne Miller, an investigative reporter for television station WBAL, stated in an interview this morning (4/30/15) that this witness has several years of prison hanging over his head and that he currently has a suspended sentence. Is he saying these things because he's getting a deal for it?
    Several posters have already run with this as the possible rational for the unidentified ear witnesses' testimony. All I'm going to say is the plot just got thicker, folks.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Upon reading the linked article, I suspected there might have been a third "ear witness" to what might have occurred during Freddie Gray's transport to the Baltimore police prescient. This updated article from theconservativetreehouse.com for the first time brings this third ear-witness more into light. However, this article from NYMag.com along with this article from theDailyKos.com states firmly that there was a third detainee in the first compartment of the police van whom Donta Allen, detainee #2 in the adjoining rear-left hand compartnet, wasn't aware.



    Report: Freddie Gray Broke His Neck Inside Van -- NYMag

    If what theconservativetreehouse.com (formerly Brietbart.com) and NYMag.com reports are true, then the only time this unknown ear witness would have heard Freddie Gray "banging against the wall" would have been the 4 minutes between the time he was placed inside the police van (8:42 am) and the time the van made it's first stop (8:46 am)when Freddie Gray was being irate. And since Freddie Gray was placed on the floor after being shackled, it's reasonable to assume the banging he allegedly heard ceased (at least temporarily) from 8:46 - 8:59 am. It wasn't until the 4th stop at 8:59 am that Freddie Gray was placed back on the bench seat of the van when Officer Porter assisted him up. But by then per the timeline of events, Freddie Gray had already sustain his neck injury at 8:54 am. It could be argued that Freddie Gray was still being "combative or irate" at the 4th (and/or 5th stop which does not have a time stamp), but it bears noting that at no other time subsequent to this first stop do the police or any other detainee report that Freddie Gray continued in his former irate state.

    According to Donta Allen, the only other identified "ear-witness" to this case, he states firmly that:



    So, assuming that there was a third unknown, unidentified ear witness in police van compartment #1 and that events hold true per the timeline as report, this witness would have had only a few minutes to discern what he heard coming from compartment #2. Furthermore, it's likely this would have been the only time any discernible sounds of loud banging would have come from compartment #2 since Freddie Gray was shackled and on the floor for up to 7 minutes prior to sustaining his neck injury and 15 minutes before Officer Porter placed him back up on the bench seat.

    The plot just got thicker, folks.
    1. What the witness says now, unless it matches what he said previously, lacks credibility becasue as he indicated, he is saying it to protect himself.
    Any introduction of those statements fails.

    2. As for a third witness? No. That has already been debunked.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    (Continued...)

    There's something else that needs to be considered and that is the testimony from the initial unidentified ear witness. From the DailyKos.com:



    Several posters have already run with this as the possible rational for the unidentified ear witnesses' testimony. All I'm going to say is the plot just got thicker, folks.
    1. That reporter has already been removed from reporting on the issue for conflicts of interest, her lover, Deputy State’s Attorney for Criminal Justice Janice Bledsoe.
    2. That speculation is nonsense as he even says he didn't receive any, unless he is lying about that also.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    Re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You clearly do no t pay attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon
    Back to the same bs huh?
    Read the article.

    The only correct interpretation of those words, becasue of the paragraph construction and quotations, was that the author was quoting the prisoner's words.
    It's possible that the quote that's been attributed to Donta Allen were not his words but rather those of this yet to be identified ear witness. And if that is the case, we have a clear conflict as to what really happened during Freddie Gray's ride in the police van.

    I would, however, agree that what this first ear witness heard was Freddie Gray banging on the wall of the van. it could have been his head or his feet. But in any case as I've stated above, such banging would have lasted but a short duration since the police stopped soon after Gray's arrest to place him in shackles. And if he sustained his neck injury after this point, it would have been impossible for Gray to cause his own injury from that point forward especially given that Donta Allen claims that the 25 minute ride to the police precinct was "a smooth ride" and that he heard very little from Gray during his portion of the trip.

    You can stick to your belief as to what happened, but something tells me there's more to this story none of us know for sure.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-10-15 at 05:07 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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