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Thread: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Doesnt that sound like common sense?
    Does what sound like common sense? To take people at their firsthand word instead of secondhand hearsay? Your reply in post #280 seemed to suggest we should be skeptical of the fact that he refuted the secondhand account of his own words. I was skeptical of the secondhand account; I am not skeptical of their refutation by the firsthand source.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    People were using the other guy's statements as support for the ridiculous notion that Gray harmed himself. When that other guy came forward and provided a direct quote himself, countermanding the earlier statement attributed to him, that completely unraveled the notion that an eye witness claimed to have seen Freddie Gray harming himself.

    No he didn't, so stop being dishonest.
    What he said now did not countermand what he said to investigators.
    What he said now was purposely worded to be dishonest without lying.
    What he said now is also tainted by the very fact of the reason he sated he was saying what he did. Fear for his life.
    You can't get around these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    But that claim is irrefutably wrong.
    No, that would be yours, as already shown.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    He was picked up on the last stop. A majority of the ride happened before he got in the van.
    And the witness heard him moving around. He has not refuted that.
    As the Commissioner let us know, the witness said he said he was thrashing about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    All of the reporting of his earlier statements were secondhand, and refuted when the firsthand source was interviewed.
    Lame argument.
    His prior statements are documented by the investigators and at least one of them was used in an affidavit for a search warrant. That is what was confirmed.
    And while reporting is second hand, that means absolutely jack when that is what he said.

    Secondly, nothing he said has been refuted.
    This has already been pointed out to you.

    And as we already know, the believability of what he says now is tainted by his trying to protect himself.
    Which you also already know.


    Don't feel bad even though it is your fault for continually being wrong.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No, that would be yours, as already shown.
    ...
    And the witness heard him moving around. He has not refuted that.
    As the Commissioner let us know, the witness said he said he was thrashing about.
    "Thrashing about" is incorrect. He said he heard "a little banging for like four seconds."

    I can understand that you don't want to deal with the fact that you are wrong... but you are wrong. Keep showing everybody how you refuse to look at facts, though. It's fun to make fun of people like that.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    "Thrashing about" is incorrect. He said he heard "a little banging for like four seconds."
    Another lame reply.

    Again:
    As the Commissioner let us know, the witness said he said he was thrashing about.
    He hasn't refuted that, nor have you.

    I can understand that you don't want to deal with the fact that you are wrong... but you are wrong. Keep showing everybody how you refuse to look at facts, though. It's fun to make fun of people like that.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Another lame reply.

    Again:
    As the Commissioner let us know, the witness said he said he was thrashing about.
    He hasn't refuted that, nor have you.

    I can understand that you don't want to deal with the fact that you are wrong... but you are wrong. Keep showing everybody how you refuse to look at facts, though. It's fun to make fun of people like that.
    Ah, so you're bad at reading then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    I got tired of embarrassing you in the other thread. I'm going to do it in here now.

    Freddie Gray Update: New Speculation On His Death, And Peaceful Protests : The Two-Way : NPR

    He added that another detainee who was riding in the van told police that Gray was "still moving around ... kicking and making noises" until the van reached the police station.

    That second detainee rode in the police van on the other side of a metal partition that divides its cargo space. When he was picked up, Gray was already in the van.

    Local news WJZ-TV reports that Donta Allen, 22, was that second man – and that he came forward Thursday out of concern over how his comments were being portrayed by both the police and the media.

    "When I was in the back of that van it did not stop or nothing. All it did was go straight to the station, but I heard a little banging, like he was banging his head," Allen said. " I didn't even know he was in the van until we got to the station."

    Saying his words have been distorted by recent reports and that he doesn't think Gray hurt himself intentionally, Allen also told a WJZ reporter, "The only reason I'm doing this is because they put my name in a bad state."

    Allen, who was reportedly taken into custody for a minor offense and was not charged with a crime, also spoke to WBAL TV. He told the station that when he got into the van, he didn't know Gray was already there. He said he heard "a little banging for like four seconds."
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Ah, so you're bad at reading then.

    No, that would obviously be you.

    From the emboldened you have one quote in there that does not refute what we have been told he already said, and another that is directly a lie. He did know he was in there.

    And you are still ignoring that what he said previously has more credibility behind it that anything he says now.


    And this was previously replied to, so all you are doing is running in circles like a chicken with it's head cut off.

    nothing he currently says really changes much of what has already been argued. The substance is still the same. There was no "rough ride/nickle ride", he was still moving when he was put into the van and his moving stopped as they arrived at their destination.


    While he is somewhat contradicting what the Police say he said, I am more than sure they have what he said documented.
    And at the time they interviewed him there was no reason for him to lie to them.
    Yet now he is in fear for his life. So that only puts his current remarks in question.

    So obviously you are bad at reading.
    Last edited by Excon; 05-03-15 at 11:55 AM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    No, that would obviously be you.

    From the emboldened you have one quote in there that does not refute what we have been told he already said, and another that is directly a lie. He did know he was in there.

    And you are still ignoring that what he said previously has more credibility behind it that anything he says now.
    You are ignoring the fact that he said "I never said that" about hearing Gray trying to injure himself. You are blatantly, obviously, indisputably WRONG! It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    You are ignoring the fact that he said "I never said that" about hearing Gray trying to injure himself. You are blatantly, obviously, indisputably WRONG! It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

    No, that would be you, as already shown.

    Anything he says now lacks credibility, becasue he is doing it to protect himself.
    But way to ignore reality.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    No, that would be you, as already shown.

    Anything he says now lacks credibility, becasue he is doing it to protect himself.
    But way to ignore reality.
    "When I was in the back of that van it did not stop or nothing. All it did was go straight to the station, but I heard a little banging, like he was banging his head," Allen said. " I didn't even know he was in the van until we got to the station."

    The banging wasn't identifiable as a human head banging around during the ride. Only after the ride and Allen knew Gray was in the van could it have been attributed as a human sound.

    Do you have any other quotes or sources that disprove this?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    "When I was in the back of that van it did not stop or nothing. All it did was go straight to the station, but I heard a little banging, like he was banging his head," Allen said. " I didn't even know he was in the van until we got to the station."

    The banging wasn't identifiable as a human head banging around during the ride. Only after the ride and Allen knew Gray was in the van could it have been attributed as a human sound.

    Do you have any other quotes or sources that disprove this?

    It is disproved by what he told the investigators as revealed to us by the Commissioner.
    He said the gay was thrashing around. That means he knew there was a guy on the other side.
    His words are also documented in an affidavit that was confirmed and reported on. HE knew a guy was on the other side.


    Anything he says now lacks credibility, becasue he is doing it to protect himself.
    But way to ignore reality.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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