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Thread: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Not absurd, logical, based on your track record.

    Come back to me when you leap to the defence of LEOs accused of contributing to the death of a white guy. Your concerns and prejudices are pretty transparent.
    Wrong again.

    It is so sad that you wish to make false assertions about a person, especially when you know they are not the topic of discussion.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    A white guy was just shot by police this week in Virginia, but there will be no whites out rioting. I wonder why that is?

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The prisoner denies saying any such thing, and the injury happened in the van.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2204988
    iLOL
    What does he deny?
    Quote it please.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    but I don't think we've ever seen a murdered black man he didn't turn into gang-banging thug.
    Wrong again.

    The underline appears to be your problem.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Excon,

    I'm just going to let your own video (post #222) debunk your weak attempt at a reply to my commentary (your post #221).

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Mr. Allen (prisoner #2) who was picked up and transported to the police station with Mr. Gray made it very clear that:

    1) He heard very little during the ride from Mr. Gray except 4-seconds of "little banging", but that the ride to the police station was quiet otherwise. This clearly would contradict the position you apparently stand behind:

    (Baltimore Police Commissioner) Batts said another man who was in the van during the tail end of Gray's ride told investigators that Gray was "was still moving around, that he was kicking and making noises" up until the van arrived at the station. Batts said the man also said the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically."
    Investigators = homicide detectives? Maybe.

    Which brings me to...

    2) He gave a completely different story to homicide detectives than what he told local police.

    I'd be curious to know why Mr. Allen would tell homicide detectives one thing but local police something different (if anything at all since per the interview he didn't tell the police "nothin'".)

    Furthermore, per the video news clip you provided, the autopsy concluded that there was "no evidence that Mr. Gray hit his head against anything on his own". (This does support Mr. Allen's account of what he told the reporter per the video you provided.) Moreover, per the autopsy Mr. Gray's neck injury was "akin to a injury suffered in a car accident. It needed that amount of force".

    Something happened in the police van between the time Mr. Gray was picked up but prior to Mr. Allen being picked up . The question is what?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 04-30-15 at 08:46 PM.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    What's " hateful " about my language ? Be specific.

    Because personally I think your just reverting to childish hyperbole because youre incabale of intelligently defending this twisted world view that you have.

    Your only defense is to fall back on childish generalizations and buzzwords like " hate " in a attempt to shut down any opposition from those who disagree with you.

    Its almost as irrelevent and innefective as constantly bringing up Bush.
    They're waking up to the ravages of Liberal Progressive policies

    This politicization of " Police brutality " so maybe the Democrats can sign up a few voters has gone on long enough.

    You have no idea what you're talking about.

    like Ignoring the fact that black communities are now one false allegation away from being destroyed from within because a bunch of idiots, leftist and Democrats ( distinction without a difference ) keep perpetuating the " Hands up dont shoot " Police brutality false narrative

    Again, left wingers claim they represent the poor and disadvantaged, but in reality ignore the plight of people in the inner city continusly in favor for stupid false narratives and catch phrases that can fit on a bumper sticker.

    Whos paying attention to the MUCH Larger issue of Black on black violence and growing poverty and dependance ? Not the Democrats and apparently not you

    For a " thoughtful leftist " you sure are coming off as uncaring and cold hearted

    The riots started because a false narrative of " Police brutality " has been reinforced exponentially by Politicians, activist and idiots looking to capitalize on the destruction and violence that now occurs on a whim.

    All right wing rhetoric, hate & talking points. Now I,m sure you want to see what Hannity & the Fox sewer has going tonight. See you in an hour.

    For some reason when I see stuff like this being childish works for me. Nothing personal
    Last edited by kjwins; 04-30-15 at 09:21 PM.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Excon,

    I'm just going to let your own video (post #222) debunk your weak attempt at a reply to my commentary (your post #221).

    Wrong.
    The only thing it changes is in what I said was thrashing, continuous or otherwise.
    Everything else remains the same.
    And it certainly does not debunk the substance as to why you were wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Which brings me to...

    2) He gave a completely different story to homicide detectives than what he told local police.

    I'd be curious to know why Mr. Allen would tell homicide detectives one thing but local police something different (if anything at all since per the interview he didn't tell the police "nothin'".)
    And why would that be?
    They were afraid to release his information because of the current hostilities in the area.
    You do not think that concern continues and obfuscation is in order for his safety?

    What matters at this point is the substance of his statements in the hands of the Prosecutor making the decisions.
    Not what he tells a reporter, especially if it is for his own safety.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Furthermore, per the video news clip you provided, the autopsy concluded that there was "no evidence that Mr. Gray hit his head against anything on his own".
    And? That doesn't mean he isn't responsible for his own injuries.
    But let me ask, given the known conditions, just what do you think could exist to show that?
    That's right, it's absence is irrelevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'd be curious to know why Mr. Allen would tell homicide detectives one thing but local police something different (if anything at all since per the interview he didn't tell the police "nothin'".)
    His making an irrelevant distinction between Police and homicide was funny. Nevertheless that distinction is meaningless as they are the same police force.
    He was interviewed immediately by homicide detectives. So that would have been the information collected and available for the Commissioner to speak about.
    And if he said anything to the other Officers, it too would have been available to the Commissioner.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Moreover, per the autopsy Mr. Gray's neck injury was "akin to a injury suffered in a car accident. It needed that amount of force".

    The same force which can happen in a slip and fall.
    For all we know he also could have waited for the upcoming stop and rammed his head at that same time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Something happened in the police van between the time Mr. Gray was picked up but prior to Mr. Allen being picked up . The question is what?
    No. The evidence already dispels that.
    He was active "up until" the last stop.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I am very very Skeptical of this new meme. Having said that, I just recently watched a video of a guy being put into the back of a squad car who didn't know he was being taped. He slammed his head in the top of the squad car several times opening a heavily bleeding gash in his forehead -- and I'm going to assume breaking his nose.

    If the guy was determined to do damage, running head down into one of the walls a few times could do some serious damage...
    I've seen that before, too, but the notion that someone could do this much damage is pretty far out there.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I am very very Skeptical of this new meme. Having said that, I just recently watched a video of a guy being put into the back of a squad car who didn't know he was being taped. He slammed his head in the top of the squad car several times opening a heavily bleeding gash in his forehead -- and I'm going to assume breaking his nose.

    If the guy was determined to do damage, running head down into one of the walls a few times could do some serious damage...
    I don't think so. I suffered from cluster headaches since before anyone knew what a cluster headache was. It feels like if you could just put a hole or crack in your skull all the pain would seep out. So in desperation more than once I went out the the garage, sat on the ground and threw myself as hard as I could backwards into the concrete floor. I may have caused a few hairline cracks, but my neck and any real damage didn't happen. Of course someone can break there own nose, that's easy, one can bang one's own head and create bloody mess, but based on my own experience, I seriously doubt anyone can break there own neck without the benefit of a mechanical assist like a noose or something along those lines. When you're slamming your own head, your neck muscles protect your spine because they are being used and therefore taut. Sorry, it just isn't at all likely.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    They're waking up to the ravages of Liberal Progressive policies.
    Nothing hateful about that. It's the truth. Let's see, St Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, Atlanta, Chicago and Obama's and Eric Holders response to the Ferguson riots that were based on a LIE says it all. A list to LEO's on how not to be a " racist " and then back to ignoring the real issues that affect the inner city. THAT'S hateful.


    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    This politicization of " Police brutality " so maybe the Democrats can sign up a few voters has gone on long enough.
    Not " hate ", just the truth...
    Democrats Use Michael Brown's Death To Turn Out The Vote | The Daily Caller

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    You have no idea what you're talking about..
    Again nothing hateful about the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    like Ignoring the fact that black communities are now one false allegation away from being destroyed from within because a bunch of idiots, leftist and Democrats ( distinction without a difference ) keep perpetuating the " Hands up dont shoot " Police brutality false narrative
    Exactly. If your'e focused on narratives and think that Police brutality is the issue after watching what happened in Ferguson or Baltimore then your priorities are a bit mixed up. Hateful is thinking that ending Police brutality ( whether it exist or not ) is going to fix whats wrong with inner cites.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    Again, left wingers claim they represent the poor and disadvantaged, but in reality ignore the plight of people in the inner city continusly in favor for stupid false narratives and catch phrases that can fit on a bumper sticker.
    " Hope and Change " has done what for the Black community ? They're disproportionately affected by the policies that have led to the worst " recovery " in our Nations History. Hateful is ignoring the fact unemployment is disproportionately higher for young Black males and most inner city areas like St Louis have been run by Democrats for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    Whos paying attention to the MUCH Larger issue of Black on black violence and growing poverty and dependance ? Not the Democrats and apparently not you
    So true and NOT hateful. " Black lives matter " only when they lose their lives at the hand of a police officer or there's a accusation of " murder by cop ". Massive protest, the President speaking up on the issue, Al Sharpton and riots for a black man who died in Police custody.

    Ignore the link as you claim my words are " hateful "...

    Chicago Homicide Rate

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    For a " thoughtful leftist " you sure are coming off as uncaring and cold hearted.
    Ignoring the underlying issues in place of a assumption or narrative is cold. What happens when the New trucks and the rioters and protesters clear out of Baltimore ? I sincerely believe there are hard working law abiding people that live there that now have to drive through a neighborhood that's littered with burned out buildings and vandalized cars. As far as the poverty and crime and violence that existed before the riot ? What happens when the rioters and Police go home ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    The riots started because a false narrative of " Police brutality " has been reinforced exponentially by Politicians, activist and idiots looking to capitalize on the destruction and violence that now occurs on a whim.
    Absolutely ! That's not " hateful, that's the truth. If you don't like being confronted with the truth, if you think a difference in opinion is " hateful " then what are you doing here ? Ferguson was based on a LIE and we don't have any concert answers to what happened in Baltimore yet. " Hands up don't shoot ", " Black lives matter " the continued insistence by some Politicians and Activist that the Law enforcement community is purposely violently targeting blacks has definitely fanned the flames that led to Baltimore.


    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    All right wing rhetoric, hate & talking points. Now I,m sure you want to see what Hannity & the Fox sewer has going tonight. See you in an hour.

    For some reason when I see stuff like this being childish works for me. Nothing personal
    All the truth, all very well explained and poorly rebutted by you. Calling my post hateful is a bit lazy as a rebuttal.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
    Ronald Reagan

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