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Thread: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

  1. #181
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    .25 cent coffee...Guess I'm showing my age.

    Though I have posted on incidents involving police more often than not condemning their actions, I've always tried to be as reasonable as I can and I don't always fault the police. When I do, I think the condemnation is justified and I'm willing to defend my points in any post that you feel that I unreasonably judged an officer. Ferguson is the best example I can think of of a case where I didn't condemn the officer (where those that are totally biased do), though I suspect before I said something you would have thought I did. Given the evidence I've read I think the shooting there was justified and I've always said that it's a shame that so many people have given so much for a person (Mike Brown) that may not deserve it. In this case involving Mr. Gray, I have yet to pass final judgement pending the release of the investigations. In the case of the shooting of Walter Scott, I was very condemning of the officer that shot him because I felt I knew enough to make that decision, but I will be the first to recant publicly (here on DP) if new information comes to light that exonerates the officer.

    I have said it several times in other threads, I went to college to be a cop, I have family and friends that are cops and most don't like what they see either, and they are all trapped in a culture of self protection. They can't speak up about the "bad apples" as it would risk their own jobs and careers and they all support body cameras. I believe they (my friends and family who are cops) are good cops, but just like anyone else good people do bad things, however when you are given the responsibility to uphold the public trust you have an obligation to be better than the average person. Violation of the public trust, especially when it involves killing or seriously injuring a person who's offense did not put the general public or the officer in danger, should be a punishable offence.

    As I said, in this case, while I'm extremely skeptical that Mr. Gray harmed himself, given that he was in a van, out of sight, there is no video until he is cuffed, I have reserved judgement and challenge you to find a post I have written that says otherwise.
    We may actually be similar in views and I thank you for your response.

    I too am generally supportive of police in their interactions with those who most often turn out to be criminals but I have offered the opinion on other threads that I believe the officer in the Walter Scott case should and will be convicted of murder. His actions, subsequent to the shooting, lead me to believe he knew what he was doing was wrong and he tried to cover up his criminal actions. I believe police who act criminally should be dealt with harshly, considering the office they hold and the power they are granted.

    I also believe that far too often the police are wrongly accused of criminal activity in cases where a person of colour is injured or dies. It is a reflexive response that is driven by agendas that are not related to the actual incidents. Ferguson is a prime example.

    It may end up that charges will be laid in this Baltimore case. I certainly hope if they are, it's not because of politics, as it was in the Zimmerman case. Falsely prosecuting a person for a crime that wasn't committed only serves to increase tensions when a jury rightly finds the person charged innocent.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  2. #182
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    We will hopefully find out once the autopsy report is released.
    Yeah, hopefully. But just to reiterate my point on why this is possible: the reason a knife cuts is because it focuses your applied pressure into a very narrow area. Momentum doesn't really matter as it doesn't take much if the impact area is small enough. The pounds of force per-square-inch are all that really matters. The sharper the knife the narrower the contact area of the edge, and the higher the effective PSI. Needles punch holes because they have a tiny contact area that is a PSI multiplier.

    So if a person falls on a hard steel corner of a bench with a contact area of, say, 2 inches (long narrow rectangle) then they apply their force/2 in pressure to the impact area. This is also why bathrooms are so deadly. A slip in the shower can cause serious damage if you come in contact with the corner of a sink even though you aren't falling very fast.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  3. #183
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    When no officer is charged, and none will be, Baltimore might look like Darfur. The Orioles will have to move to Salt Lake City.

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Well no, OJ Simpson isn't a nice guy, but you should know the reason he walked.
    I was being sarcastic in my comment to Summerwind. But, as someone who watched daily the delivery of evidence in the trial and the poor job done by the prosecution and the judge, I had predicted OJ would be found not guilty. It wasn't because of jury nullification - although many would like to believe that was the case in order to make them feel better about the justice system. In my view, it was because the case was not made beyond a reasonable doubt.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  5. #185
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I do not believe it is possible to break your own neck by slamming your head against a wall nor collapsing your own throat when handcuffed.
    It is indeed possible, though I doubt that's the extent he was going for. Especially considering he'd had recent back surgery.

  6. #186
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    ..with all due respect, you are Canadian. Your experiences here to not fully translate to the U.S. Although there are not a ton of cultural differences between the US and Canada, there are some, particularly in matters relating to respect for authority (hell, you stand on a street corner in Canada late a night with no car in sight and people wait for the "Walk" sign). That respect generally works both ways in Canada. The Canadian police also respect back. They don't take themselves seriously (are they buying military surplus to outfit themselves as domestic army?). There are no where near the number of allegations of police brutality in Canada as there are in the US. Moreover, Canada has no obvious inner-city economic blight, very minor economic fragmentation and less racial tension overall.

    Sorry Canada, but your anecdotes don't translate here. Comment on things you are qualified to comment on. This is not one of them.
    Aside from the fact you seem to know little about Canada, I'll simply respond by saying you make my case for me. Pretty simply - you say respect works in Canada - people respect authority here and in return police respect citizens. It may be a chicken/egg issue, but I've traveled to the US and had interactions with police there - not many, granted - but my attitude is always respectful and I get nothing but respect back.

    If respect for others is cultural and it doesn't apply to the US, then you have a whole lot more problems on your hands than this Baltimore incident showcases.

    And with respect, I'll acknowledge your advice and respectfully continue to govern myself as I always have.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Really, the culpable cops don't know what happened. The baltimore police chief has acknowledged in the past that his officers have violated department conduct rules. And, just since 2011, the department has paid out 5.7 million due to lost law suits. Think credibility ok.
    That's why you bring in the Maryland State Police to investigate and later the FBI as well.

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Hahahaha hahahaha, the baltimore police chief is lying. Ok, well either way, seems to me the baltimore police department has a credibility problem, but then the Sun has only been DOCUMENTING THAT FOR YEARS.
    So there is proof and the Baltimore Sun has documented all of this inept Democrat leadership. Now, that's rich.

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    We haven't heard much from any experts, but I would like to know if it is even possible to gain enough momentum to break a person's neck in such a confined area.
    I venture to say it is not.
    If that is what truly happened, he may have been trying to get bruises on his back and neck, but it may have backfired on him. It only takes 8 pounds of pressure to break a bone. If he was high on PCP or some other drug, then he would have been much stronger than a normal man and have been able to do more damage.

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document says

    BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

    [...]

    Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was



    Maybe folks were to quick to blame police.
    I haven't read all 19 pages but I am sure someone has brought up the fact that prisoners are not the most trustworthy people. This guy could be lying for a lenient sentence. So he has a lot of motivation to lie in favor of the police.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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