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Thread: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    Start in Detroit, which was taken over by a Rep governor, & city manager. See what a great job they did.
    The predicament the city is in is directly the results of it's previous liberal leaders. Not any repubs.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The predicament the city is in is directly the results of it's previous liberal leaders. Not any repubs.
    I see no difference in Rep's or Dem's. Most are sell outs & owned by the corporate state.
    “A drug is not bad. A drug is a chemical compound. The problem comes in when people who take drugs treat them like a license to behave like an asshole.” People do drugs because reality sucks, If you want people to stop doing drugs change reality.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    Well I.m glad to see you know what its like to be black in the city. Thanks for you're insight.

    Black on Black crime is 90%. White on white crime is 84%. What the hell the does this have to do with anything.

    If you want to know what its like in US cities, you should go into these places. Start in Detroit, which was taken over by a Rep governor, & city manager. See what a great job they did.

    Attachment 67183780
    Lol !!!

    You have no idea what you're talking about.

    Detroits been run by Democrats since the 60s and eventually bankrupted itself by electing corrupt Democrats who borrowed and spent money they didn't have while they pushed out wealth and Bussinesses with their destructive left wing agenda.

    Sound familiar ? It should. Its the Democratsl blue print for how to destroy a City

    Hey, remember Kwame Kirkpatricks " Ho Party's " ?? Lol !


    As far as the conditions of inner city areas having nothing to do with all of this ? You would have to ignore quite a bit to come to that conclusion.

    Like Ignoring the fact that black communities are now one false allegation away from being destroyed from within because a bunch of idiots, leftist and Democrats ( distinction without a difference ) keep perpetuating the " Hands up dont shoot " Police brutality false narrative.

    Ignore the multiple riots we've already had and the fact they're isolated to these communities.

    Ignore that the poverty rate, unemployment rate and violence and dependence in Cities like Baltimore, Detroit and Ferguson are disproportionately higher to other communites.

    Ignore the weekly body count out of Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, St Louis while you claim " Black lives matter " and jump to conclusions and blame the Police.

    Again, left wingers claim they represent the poor and disadvantaged, but in reality ignore the plight of people in the inner city continusly in favor for stupid false narratives and catch phrases that can fit on a bumper sticker.

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    I see no difference in Rep's or Dem's.
    That doesn't justify your inaccuracy.


    Quote Originally Posted by kjwins View Post
    Most are sell outs & owned by the corporate state.
    That is a convoluted nonsense.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And risk to life is an exaggeration.
    And the safety of the Officer is a valid reason.
    The man died, how is risk to life an exaggeration when it has a non-zero probability of happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Now how do you think it matters?
    I am pretty sure it doesn't, as it is likely they would have said if it did.
    We don't know if it matters yet or not. But it does show that the police haven't been completely honest with their initial reports. That's, at best, mildly concerning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No. It was just put into effect nine days prior.
    It wasn't a risk to life all the umpteen years before, it certainly isn't now.
    Concern for safety, yes.
    Risk to life, exaggeration.
    He died, obviously not restraining him risks life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    No. It is an exaggeration. And there is no indication that not having a seatbelt contributed.
    He was either thrown around or thrashing around the van, had he been seatbelted in, that could not have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Stop with the exaggeration.

    And I already informed you they stated the reason.
    What did you not understand about the following statement?
    And not securing by seatbelt out of safety concerns for the Officer as claimed, is another valid reason.
    And that must be demonstrated. To risk injury (how's that, you like that one more) to the restrained and chained suspect needs justification that will need to be demonstrated. I'm sure the investigation looks at that too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    OMG! You don't even have the argument straight.
    There is no intellectual honesty in you saying "kicking and screaming" (an exaggeration) is the same as "kicking and making noise" as reported.
    The claim is dishonest exaggeration.
    It's all functionally equivalent. He was kicking and making noise, Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    There is that lack of honesty again.
    No, they are not the same.
    And it has nothing to do with the portion that came before. That is a dishonest claim. It is not out of context.

    Your original claim was an assumption, period. Your second claim is different and is an observation.

    "Nothing can exonerate the actions of the police."
    You can not change the fact that it is an assumption on your part.
    You've taken it out of context to make that claim, obviously I was referencing the argument we were having at that moment, of which nothing there exonerated the police.

    Try to be a little honest, can ya?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Lol !!!

    You have no idea what you're talking about.

    Detroits been run by Democrats since the 60s and eventually bankrupted itself by electing corrupt Democrats who borrowed and spent money they didn't have while they pushed out wealth and Bussinesses with their destructive left wing agenda.

    Sound familiar ? It should. Its the Democratsl blue print for how to destroy a City

    Hey, remember Kwame Kirkpatricks " Ho Party's " ?? Lol !


    As far as the conditions of inner city areas having nothing to do with all of this ? You would have to ignore quite a bit to come to that conclusion.

    Like Ignoring the fact that black communities are now one false allegation away from being destroyed from within because a bunch of idiots, leftist and Democrats ( distinction without a difference ) keep perpetuating the " Hands up dont shoot " Police brutality false narrative.

    Ignore the multiple riots we've already had and the fact they're isolated to these communities.

    Ignore that the poverty rate, unemployment rate and violence and dependence in Cities like Baltimore, Detroit and Ferguson are disproportionately higher to other communites.

    Ignore the weekly body count out of Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, St Louis while you claim " Black lives matter " and jump to conclusions and blame the Police.

    Again, left wingers claim they represent the poor and disadvantaged, but in reality ignore the plight of people in the inner city continusly in favor for stupid false narratives and catch phrases that can fit on a bumper sticker.
    I don't like either party, but since you are in love with Rep's, please tell us what they have done for black, white, poor in any city in America.
    “A drug is not bad. A drug is a chemical compound. The problem comes in when people who take drugs treat them like a license to behave like an asshole.” People do drugs because reality sucks, If you want people to stop doing drugs change reality.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    That doesn't justify your inaccuracy.



    That is a convoluted nonsense.
    What have I said that is inaccurate? For being an Independent you sure do stick up for the right. So tell me how the great Rep's will fix the country. By sending more jobs overseas.
    “A drug is not bad. A drug is a chemical compound. The problem comes in when people who take drugs treat them like a license to behave like an asshole.” People do drugs because reality sucks, If you want people to stop doing drugs change reality.
    ― Frank Zappa

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Exactly right - except for the 25 cent coffee - but that's for another thread.

    Point being, your anecdotal experiences are no more valid in the investigation of this incident than mine are but you and others believe that police are always criminally violent and the cause of any injury a person in custody or being apprehended suffers. We here in Ontario, Canada have a pretty sophisticated civilian police conduct investigation process and any time a civilian is injured or dies and police are on the scene, a full investigation takes place. And guess what? A tiny fraction of those investigations ever lead to a police officer being charged although there's pretty often a public outcry about the incident.

    You expect the worst of police and I expect the best of police - one of us is always disappointed in the outcome of such investigations.
    .25 cent coffee...Guess I'm showing my age.

    Though I have posted on incidents involving police more often than not condemning their actions, I've always tried to be as reasonable as I can and I don't always fault the police. When I do, I think the condemnation is justified and I'm willing to defend my points in any post that you feel that I unreasonably judged an officer. Ferguson is the best example I can think of of a case where I didn't condemn the officer (where those that are totally biased do), though I suspect before I said something you would have thought I did. Given the evidence I've read I think the shooting there was justified and I've always said that it's a shame that so many people have given so much for a person (Mike Brown) that may not deserve it. In this case involving Mr. Gray, I have yet to pass final judgement pending the release of the investigations. In the case of the shooting of Walter Scott, I was very condemning of the officer that shot him because I felt I knew enough to make that decision, but I will be the first to recant publicly (here on DP) if new information comes to light that exonerates the officer.

    I have said it several times in other threads, I went to college to be a cop, I have family and friends that are cops and most don't like what they see either, and they are all trapped in a culture of self protection. They can't speak up about the "bad apples" as it would risk their own jobs and careers and they all support body cameras. I believe they (my friends and family who are cops) are good cops, but just like anyone else good people do bad things, however when you are given the responsibility to uphold the public trust you have an obligation to be better than the average person. Violation of the public trust, especially when it involves killing or seriously injuring a person who's offense did not put the general public or the officer in danger, should be a punishable offence.

    As I said, in this case, while I'm extremely skeptical that Mr. Gray harmed himself, given that he was in a van, out of sight, there is no video until he is cuffed, I have reserved judgement and challenge you to find a post I have written that says otherwise.
    Last edited by csbrown28; 04-30-15 at 12:29 PM.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Your statement here is indicative of convoluted and biased thoughts.
    The prisoner in question couldn't actually see Freddy Gray.

    He heard Gray thrashing around, but since he couldn't actually see Gray he can't give any credible explanation as to how or why Gray was doing whatever it was he was doing.

    Nevertheless, he wastes no time jumping to conclusions, saying that he believed Gray was intentionally trying to injure himself.

    Yeah, take that one to the bank!!!

    Wooo hooo!!!!

    Slam dunk!!!!

    Again, if the "prisoner" had said anything that actually implicated police you would be the first (the VERY first) to argue that the prisoner's account should be ignored because:

    1. He is a prisoner, and thus has no credibility.
    2. He didn't actually see anything.
    3. We have no indication that he is trained in any manner which might allow him to draw inferences of how Gray was acting based simply upon "the sounds of thrashing" he says Gray was making.


    Given all of that it is MUCH more likely that the "prisoner" is singing for "the man" than that his statement has any evidentiary value whatsoever.

    It was known from the beginning and was obtained thorough investigation.
    It was then used in an affidavit to obtain a search warrant.
    Yeah, a warrant seeking the seizure of a uniform worn by one of the officers involved in Gray’s arrest or transport.

    Seems like a perfectly reasonable piece of information to put in that kind of warrant.

    "Hey, we're going to need the uniform that you were wearing the night you beat the **** out of Freddy Gray. And by the way, this prisoner says that even though he couldn't see Gray in the back of the van and consequently has no idea what actually happened to him he "believes" Gray caused his own spinal fracture and death, how about that? We'll probably just run with that explanation so the DA will almost certainly decline to indict, you know, how we usually do. We'll settle with the family later to shut them up, you know, how we always do."
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Lol !!!

    You have no idea what you're talking about.

    Detroits been run by Democrats since the 60s and eventually bankrupted itself by electing corrupt Democrats who borrowed and spent money they didn't have while they pushed out wealth and Bussinesses with their destructive left wing agenda.

    Sound familiar ? It should. Its the Democratsl blue print for how to destroy a City

    Hey, remember Kwame Kirkpatricks " Ho Party's " ?? Lol !


    As far as the conditions of inner city areas having nothing to do with all of this ? You would have to ignore quite a bit to come to that conclusion.

    Like Ignoring the fact that black communities are now one false allegation away from being destroyed from within because a bunch of idiots, leftist and Democrats ( distinction without a difference ) keep perpetuating the " Hands up dont shoot " Police brutality false narrative.

    Ignore the multiple riots we've already had and the fact they're isolated to these communities.

    Ignore that the poverty rate, unemployment rate and violence and dependence in Cities like Baltimore, Detroit and Ferguson are disproportionately higher to other communites.

    Ignore the weekly body count out of Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, St Louis while you claim " Black lives matter " and jump to conclusions and blame the Police.

    Again, left wingers claim they represent the poor and disadvantaged, but in reality ignore the plight of people in the inner city continusly in favor for stupid false narratives and catch phrases that can fit on a bumper sticker.
    Please realize these kids don't like established black leaders.

    From Chris Hedges at Truth Dig.

    This militant, rising off the bloody streets of cities such as Ferguson, Mo., understands that the beast is not simply white supremacy, chronic poverty and the many faces of racism but the destructive energy of corporate capitalism. This militant has given up on electoral politics, the courts and legislative reform, loathes the corporate press and rejects established black leaders such as Barack Obama, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Michael Eric Dyson. This militant believes it is only in the streets and in acts of civil disobedience that change is possible. And given the refusal of the corporate state to address the mounting suffering of the poor and working poor, draconian state repression and indiscriminate use of lethal state violence against unarmed people of color, I think the new black radical is right. It will be a long, hot and violent summer.

    Chris Hedges: Rise of the New Black Radicals - Chris Hedges - Truthdig
    “A drug is not bad. A drug is a chemical compound. The problem comes in when people who take drugs treat them like a license to behave like an asshole.” People do drugs because reality sucks, If you want people to stop doing drugs change reality.
    ― Frank Zappa

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