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Thread: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Are you going on record that people arrested by the police should always be presumed to be telling the truth?
    Stop your absurdity joko.

    It was obtained during an investigation. Not as a self serving statement.
    There presently is no known reason to disbelieve what he said. That is your problem for not recognizing that.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And?
    That does not indicate wrong doing on the part of Police.
    Do you or do you not understands that?
    So does that mean the US is much more violent than other developed nations and therefore needs such levels of lethal response from its law enforcement ?

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    What?
    I heard no follow ups that identified the doctor that was making these assertions, nor where there any other doctors that lent greater credence to the plausibility of this.

    This is all that I heard, and am trying to clearly state where I think it is in the vetting process. You own mileage may vary.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    LOL

    Yeah.

    Probably the same "credible source" that told them about the vast gang conspiracy to kill cops.

    Not holding my breath on that, see no reason to believe this either.

    No doubt in my mind that the DA offered this kid a sweetheart deal to provide this "revelation".

    What's funny is that the same people who are taking this "admission" as Bible truth would be the first to discount anything this kid said if it went against the police.

    There are dozens of witnesses, and note that none of them are sitting in prison so by "conservative" standards typically a lot more credible, all along the route from the time of Gray's arrest 'til the time he was delivered to Shock Trauma who have given accounts of police abusing Gray and none of those accounts are being bandied about by those who support big government jackbooted oppression.

    But one skell sings like a canary to beat a charge and it's like the gates of heaven opened up and God told you Gray was being a rascal.

    If it weren't so pathetic, and so transparent, it would be funny.
    You are speaking from a position of your own biases and clearly do not know of what you speak.



    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    No doubt in my mind that the DA offered this kid a sweetheart deal to provide this "revelation".
    Your statement here is indicative of convoluted and biased thoughts.
    It was known from the beginning and was obtained thorough investigation.
    It was then used in an affidavit to obtain a search warrant.

    So you can just stop with your absurdly biased bs.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You haven't refute what I said.
    There may have been a reason for not doing so and not doing so does not automatically mean they are responsible for his injuries.
    I wasn't refuting, I stated that they must demonstrate a good reason to risk the life of the prisoner in such a manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Obviously you are not paying attention. The route is already known.
    Do you not understand that?



    Again confirming you are not paying attention. It is there.
    OHHHHH OK. This new information that came out today that said there was an additional stop that had not been reported previously was already accounted for in the past when they hadn't reported it. Cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Continually saying they endangered his life by not doing so is ridiculous.
    It puts your argument in the realm of exaggerated nonsense.
    Especially as that "rule" (not law) was not previously in force 9 days earlier.
    The "rule" (not law) was implemented for safety reasons, but that does not mean their life was endangered by not following it.


    And not securing by seatbelt out of safety concerns for the Officer as claimed, is another valid reason.

    And as the policy allowed for other means of restraining device be used, you have no idea if that was done or not. Just the claims of no seatbelt.
    Not properly securing the prisoner does risk his life, obviously, as given what happened here. So no, it's not exaggeration. The police need to produce the reason why they risked the life of the prisoner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    iLOL
    And?
    I know what is says. It does not say "kicking and screaming"as you claimed.
    That is just another of your exaggerations.

    While it may later turn out to be true, presently it is just another of your exaggerations.
    It says kicking and making noise, it's not an exaggeration. Jeez, how about a touch of intellectual honesty in your arguments?


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Yes you did make an assumption.
    "nothing can exonerate the actions of the police." is an assumption.

    There is a difference in what you said.
    One is an assumption the other is an observation.
    "Nothing can exonerate the actions of the police." (an assumption), is different from "Nothing there exonerates the police" (an observation).


    "Nothing can" is not the same as "nothing there".
    I am sure you know that.


    That post was in reference to the information presented that Gray tried to injure himself. Nothing that was presented exonerates the police, both statements are true. You have to take one out of context, remove the beginning portion of the sentence and forget that it was in response to a specific argument to claim it was "assumption".

    And regardless, it changes nothing. Even if Gray tried to do this to himself, which has not been demonstrated only alleged by someone who couldn't see Gray, there has yet to be any evidence that would exonerate the police.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    I heard no follow ups that identified the doctor that was making these assertions, nor where there any other doctors that lent greater credence to the plausibility of this.

    This is all that I heard, and am trying to clearly state where I think it is in the vetting process. You own mileage may vary.
    What?
    What assertions?

    This topic is about what the other person in the van said, so I am asking to what you are referring?


    BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    So does that mean the US is much more violent than other developed nations and therefore needs such levels of lethal response from its law enforcement ?
    And again; That does not indicate wrong doing on the part of police.
    If you want to go further off-topic, take it elsewhere.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    And your experiences prove what? I've always been respectful to police, but in my youth I can say that I was treated with enormous amounts of disrespect, but I grew up in a poor neighborhood where the cops treated people like crap. Now this isn't meant to prove anything except your anicdotal experiences and .25 cents will get you a cup of coffee.
    Exactly right - except for the 25 cent coffee - but that's for another thread.

    Point being, your anecdotal experiences are no more valid in the investigation of this incident than mine are but you and others believe that police are always criminally violent and the cause of any injury a person in custody or being apprehended suffers. We here in Ontario, Canada have a pretty sophisticated civilian police conduct investigation process and any time a civilian is injured or dies and police are on the scene, a full investigation takes place. And guess what? A tiny fraction of those investigations ever lead to a police officer being charged although there's pretty often a public outcry about the incident.

    You expect the worst of police and I expect the best of police - one of us is always disappointed in the outcome of such investigations.
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Cities like Baltimore, Detroit, St Louis, Chicago, Atlanta, etc have been run by leftist monopolies for decades. Including the Police departments.

    There's NO Bush or Conservative finger prints on any of this.

    And yes I have been paying attention to this narrative. " Hands up dont shoot " was a lie.

    Whos paying attention to the MUCH Larger issue of Black on black violence and growing poverty and dependance ? Not the Democrats and apparently not you
    Well I.m glad to see you know what its like to be black in the city. Thanks for you're insight.

    Black on Black crime is 90%. White on white crime is 84%. What the hell the does this have to do with anything.

    If you want to know what its like in US cities, you should go into these places. Start in Detroit, which was taken over by a Rep governor, & city manager. See what a great job they did.

    Detroit-problems.jpg
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    re: Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’ document [W:384]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I wasn't refuting, I stated that they must demonstrate a good reason to risk the life of the prisoner in such a manner.
    And risk to life is an exaggeration.
    And the safety of the Officer is a valid reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    OHHHHH OK. This new information that came out today that said there was an additional stop that had not been reported previously was already accounted for in the past when they hadn't reported it.
    Okay. That was my mistake.
    My apology for saying you were not paying attention at that point like you are in the others. It was me not paying attention at that point.

    Now how do you think it matters?
    I am pretty sure it doesn't, as it is likely they would have said if it did.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not properly securing the prisoner does risk his life,
    No. It was just put into effect nine days prior.
    It wasn't a risk to life all the umpteen years before, it certainly isn't now.
    Concern for safety, yes.
    Risk to life, exaggeration.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    obviously, as given what happened here. So no, it's not exaggeration.

    No. It is an exaggeration. And there is no indication that not having a seatbelt contributed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The police need to produce the reason why they risked the life of the prisoner.
    Stop with the exaggeration.

    And I already informed you they stated the reason.
    What did you not understand about the following statement?
    And not securing by seatbelt out of safety concerns for the Officer as claimed, is another valid reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It says kicking and making noise, it's not an exaggeration. Jeez, how about a touch of intellectual honesty in your arguments?
    OMG! You don't even have the argument straight.
    There is no intellectual honesty in you saying "kicking and screaming" (an exaggeration) is the same as "kicking and making noise" as reported.
    The claim is dishonest exaggeration.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That post was in reference to the information presented that Gray tried to injure himself. Nothing that was presented exonerates the police, both statements are true. You have to take one out of context, remove the beginning portion of the sentence and forget that it was in response to a specific argument to claim it was "assumption".
    There is that lack of honesty again.
    No, they are not the same.
    And it has nothing to do with the portion that came before. That is a dishonest claim. It is not out of context.

    Your original claim was an assumption, period. Your second claim is different and is an observation.

    "Nothing can exonerate the actions of the police."
    You can not change the fact that it is an assumption on your part.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle

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