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Thread: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

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    Re: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I did.
    I just saw 20-50 accounts. No other real information, other than "further analysis is being conducted on the data"
    I dont see any indication that they did or did not do that...
    I'm sure they were just saying we dont have very much information on the study at all from the article.
    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    ....The use of social media to fuel violence in Baltimore has already been highlighted by law enforcement. On Monday, police said an online call was issued for a "purge" at 3 p.m. ET, starting at Mondawmin Mall and ending in the downtown area. That type of threat is based on a movie called “The Purge,” the plot of which involves rampant lawlessness....
    Okedoke then, which media outlets do you find as plausible sources for an attempt to coordinate timing and location for that sort of activity?

    When they say:

    ...While further analysis is being conducted on the data, it suggests the presence of "professional protesters" or anarchists taking advantage of Freddie Gray's death to incite more violence....
    How, exactly, do you get the assumption that they could be talking about media taking advantage of Gray's death to incite more violence?
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    How, exactly, do you get the assumption that they could be talking about media taking advantage of Gray's death to incite more violence?
    I think the question is, based on the information contained in the article, how we even get to the possibility of there being professional protesters. Saying there are "social media links" is like saying A is "related" to B--without more information, it's impossible to know what "related" means. In this case, I'd be surprised if there weren't people in Baltimore, or any other American city looking at FB posts about Michael Brown and "liking" them. That's a far cry from showing that anyone, even those same people, are inciting violence in an organized and clandestine manner.

    I'm not saying that isn't happening. Only that it takes more than an anonymous company claiming there are between 20-50 accounts "linking" Baltimore and Ferguson to establish or even suggest that.

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    Re: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Okedoke then, which media outlets do you find as plausible sources for an attempt to coordinate timing and location for that sort of activity?
    Is that the study saying the example you just gave or the new outlet? Nor does one example prove anything...

    When they say:
    How, exactly, do you get the assumption that they could be talking about media taking advantage of Gray's death to incite more violence?
    I think you are a little confused on what I am and what I am asking, "By social media activity do they mean "retweets", "shares", "likes", "comments"?

    I ask this because:
    1.)The article does not go into much detail into the study. It simply states that there is a lot of social media activity during protests and especially when they turn violent. Doesnt go much into details, and just says further analysis is being done.
    2.)Then the author of the article talks about the "purge" and New York City. Ok... Is the authors point to show that things can be organized on social media or is it "professional protesters" are controlling protesters via social media? Or what is the point?
    3.)Also what are the details of the tweets during the violence? Is it "**** the police! Burn it all down! Revolution!", or something along those lines? Or is it reporting going on? Marchers tweeting what they see? What are the details?
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    If you read through it, it seems to be looking at individuals not tied to organizations who are uploading as a first-person source.
    Their methodology is obscure and unclear -- we don't even know who is doing the analysis, let alone what criteria they're using. It's not at all clear that anyone is traveling anywhere, as you certainly don't need to leave your living room to comment on a current event 800 miles away or to tweet "I bet there will be violence in Baltimore tonight."

    On a side note, I find it fascinating that the police can't track down people who stalk and threaten women (e.g. Gamergate) but are experts at finding people who threaten police via social media. Hmmmm


    It also matches, as Redress points out, the on-site reports that the majority of the worst offenders were outsiders.
    Nothing in the article makes any such suggestion. All it does is make a vague and unsourced claim that there were 20-50 people who were actively discussing those topics during the peak violence.

    It's also a bit absurd to suggest that cities like Baltimore or Ferguson are having issues because of a few agitators on social media, when you've got large numbers of local residents outraged over years of allegations of police abuse. E.g.:
    Baltimore paid $5 million in 4 years for police brutality lawsuits - Business Insider

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    Re: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    I think the question is, based on the information contained in the article, how we even get to the possibility of there being professional protesters. Saying there are "social media links" is like saying A is "related" to B--without more information, it's impossible to know what "related" means. In this case, I'd be surprised if there weren't people in Baltimore, or any other American city looking at FB posts about Michael Brown and "liking" them. That's a far cry from showing that anyone, even those same people, are inciting violence in an organized and clandestine manner.

    I'm not saying that isn't happening. Only that it takes more than an anonymous company claiming there are between 20-50 accounts "linking" Baltimore and Ferguson to establish or even suggest that.
    Social Media Analysis is a lot more than just aggregating "likes" and filtering for multiple locations. What they are describing are individuals actively inciting / taking part in violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist
    I think you are a little confused on what I am and what I am asking, "By social media activity do they mean "retweets", "shares", "likes", "comments"?
    Social media can mean that and a lot more, to include the associated metadata. Social Media Analysis involves more than simple data aggregation, however,

    1.)The article does not go into much detail into the study. It simply states that there is a lot of social media activity during protests and especially when they turn violent. Doesnt go much into details, and just says further analysis is being done.
    Yup.

    2.)Then the author of the article talks about the "purge" and New York City. Ok... Is the authors point to show that things can be organized on social media or is it "professional protesters" are controlling protesters via social media? Or what is the point?
    The point is that people are attempting to use social media to organize particular violent / lawless outbursts, and that some of these people are apparently doing so in multiple locations.

    3.)Also what are the details of the tweets during the violence? Is it "**** the police! Burn it all down! Revolution!", or something along those lines? Or is it reporting going on? Marchers tweeting what they see? What are the details?
    social media analysis can scoop up (as I said) quite a lot, including content, yes, but also beyond it.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Social Media Analysis is a lot more than just aggregating "likes" and filtering for multiple locations. What they are describing are individuals actively inciting / taking part in violence.
    No, that's not what this obscure sketch of the report says. It only says it identified 20-50 people active in social media at times of peak unrest in those two communities. There's no indication those people are anywhere near the events, let alone that anyone is even paying much attention to what they're saying.

    And again, the source is anonymous, the data is not shared, and they tipped off a right-wing news outlet. Yes, transparency is important, isn't it?


    The point is that people are attempting to use social media to organize particular violent / lawless outbursts....
    You can't draw that conclusion either. The Fox article (not entirely by accident) conflates this report, with claims that "social media incites violence." Classic media obfuscation, btw.

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    Re: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Their methodology is obscure and unclear -- we don't even know who is doing the analysis, let alone what criteria they're using. It's not at all clear that anyone is traveling anywhere, as you certainly don't need to leave your living room to comment on a current event 800 miles away or to tweet "I bet there will be violence in Baltimore tonight."

    On a side note, I find it fascinating that the police can't track down people who stalk and threaten women (e.g. Gamergate) but are experts at finding people who threaten police via social media. Hmmmm
    Social Media has the handy habit of often including links to your full name, associations, and recent location. I wouldn't be able to speak to gamergate, as this is the first I've heard of it.

    Nothing in the article makes any such suggestion. All it does is make a vague and unsourced claim that there were 20-50 people who were actively discussing those topics during the peak violence.
    No. "Actively discussing" would be in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions. The first thing (well, one of the first things) you would do would be to filter for folks who were at both locations and then you would look at content, timing, etc.

    It's also a bit absurd to suggest that cities like Baltimore or Ferguson are having issues because of a few agitators on social media
    No - their violence is increased because of agitators who use social media.

    In Ferguson, Many Outsiders Are Among Those Arrested
    Ferguson protesters claim outsiders shot police
    Ferguson residents want 'outsiders' to leave
    Baltimore mayor says outsiders turned peaceful protest violent
    Former national chairman of the New Black Panther Party said the purpose of yesterday’s rally was to cause a major disruption in Baltimore

    when you've got large numbers of local residents outraged over years of allegations of police abuse. E.g.:
    Baltimore paid $5 million in 4 years for police brutality lawsuits - Business Insider
    I have no doubt that many are angry, nor any doubt that investigation will reveal that the city was run poorly.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    No, that's not what this obscure sketch of the report says. It only says it identified 20-50 people active in social media at times of peak unrest in those two communities. There's no indication those people are anywhere near the events, let alone that anyone is even paying much attention to what they're saying.
    Hm. Maybe this means more to me because Social Media Analysis has a more precise meaning in my RL. However, if this company is indeed one of the ones I think it is, then no, that simple identification is in no way the sum of that analysis. That filter (very active) would give you hundreds of thousands if not millions of names, even if tied to subject matter.

    And again, the source is anonymous, the data is not shared, and they tipped off a right-wing news outlet. Yes, transparency is important, isn't it?
    the company doesn't want to be named because it does this sort of thing for the government, meaning probably our military/intelligence structures. This is part of how we find and kill bad guys.

    You can't draw that conclusion either
    You can, actually. That is what calling for a Purge means. No one is suggesting an ancient roman dining habit.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Social Media Analysis is a lot more than just aggregating "likes" and filtering for multiple locations. What they are describing are individuals actively inciting / taking part in violence.
    Well they dont even give a really solid definition in what they mean of activity.. They just say "social media activity" in the article.. My question is what does that mean? If it means "retweets" or "likes" then **** I imagine that social media "activity" would spike then, because people are retweeting a bunch of stories, images, videos etc. Does that mean "social media is driving violent protests", I would say no its not. Its people retweeting and liking shocking images, or videos, not for the purpose of "lets go riot woohooo!", I would say its more for the informative nature, and shock value.

    Social media can mean that and a lot more, to include the associated metadata.
    "Can". Does this study take that into account?

    Social Media Analysis involves more than simple data aggregation, however,
    Well do we even know the substance of this study?

    Yup.
    So im confused on what your reticule over my comment is....

    The point is that people are attempting to use social media to organize particular violent / lawless outbursts, and that some of these people are apparently doing so in multiple locations.
    I dont see how an increase in social media activity in an area at one time equates to "they are using it to organize violence, look at the social media spike!", especially when we dont even know the details behind the study... And especially what the messages of those messages on social media... If I tweet a message, "lets march!" during a time in one of these "social media spikes", does that mean im organizing violence and "lawless outbursts?"

    social media analysis can scoop up (as I said) quite a lot, including content, yes, but also beyond it.
    Well is that study even doing that?

    No - their violence is increased because of agitators who use social media.

    None of those articles were about specific social media, or their use of social media. It was about people coming in from Ferguson who are not members of the city or surrounding areas...


    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: Social Media Analysis suggests links between Baltimore and Ferguson violence

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Social Media has the handy habit of often including links to your full name, associations, and recent location.
    Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, none of these require a verifiable identity. A poster can easily fake or disguise their identity. Location is only publicly visible if you allow it, otherwise law enforcement would need the cooperation of the service provider -- which usually requires a warrant.


    I wouldn't be able to speak to gamergate, as this is the first I've heard of it.
    So you know all about social media and how it's analyzed, but you've never heard of Gamergate, the biggest social media controversy in 2014? Riiiiight


    No. "Actively discussing" would be in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions...
    Again, this is an anonymous source, we don't have access to the data, and it's filtered through a biased site. We don't really know what the data indicates.


    No - their violence is increased because of agitators who use social media.
    Or, it's easy for authorities to blame outsiders for the problems of their own making. Most of the people busted in Ferguson were, in fact, from Missouri or across the border in Illinois.

    No, ‘outside agitators’ have not been dominating the unrest in Ferguson - The Washington Post

    The "Ferguson sniper" who shot 2 police officers lived in the area, wasn't affiliated with the protests, and apparently is not a professional agitator.
    Ferguson Police Shooting Suspect Jeffrey Williams Allegedly Said He Wasn't Aiming For Cops

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