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Baltimore Police: Gangs Enter Partnership to ‘Take-Out’ Officers [W:99]

I think that the Middle Class are being told that if they don't want to protect those most vulnerable within our society, then the Poor Folks need to show the Middle Class just how vulnerable the Middle Class really is....

I snipped the rest of your post out, but I just want to say that it was a well thought out post. I also ran out of space and had to chop yours up a bit. There are people on this forum who actually believe that taxes and social programs are meant to do something other than keep the lower classes comfortable enough to not riot. It would probably more helpful if more people in the upper classes ever came close to understanding your point. It was eloquently made with plenty of examples.

Anyways, getting back to the specific subject, black people didn't riot over Stop & Frisk, black people didn't riot even after it became known that overwhelming majority of people released by the Innocence Program are black. Black people didn't riot after the hundreds of other police brutality incidents around the country in which the black person is a victim. Mostly because the mentality is that these issues will simply be settled eventually. However, the reality is that they are not and that's starting to clash with the outrage at these police brutality incidents. People are becoming convinced (and with good reason) that the system is indeed 'rigged' against black America. You add on to that the racial baggage our founding fathers left us with, and we have:

A) A view of racial benefits shaped by historical policies
B) The demonstrably different treatments that the justice system gives depending on race today
C) The perception that the demands made by Republican voices and supposedly fulfilled by Democrats administrations have fallen short of their intended purpose

In other words, people are angry because they're coming to the conclusion that things haven't changed all that much and police officers can still be violence against blacks without concern for any real punishment. When that happens, it leads to riots and it's not a white or black thing. It's a human thing. People riot and protest when they feel the state has not fulfilled its duties or lived up to its claims of reform. That is what I feel is happening here.
 
Quotes And Interesting Commentary On This Topic:

“In the history of secrets, withheld from the American people, this is the biggest secret: that there are classes with different interests in this country. To ignore that — not to know that the history of our country is a history of slaveowner against slave, landlord against tenant, corporation against worker, rich against poor — is to render us helpless before all the lesser lies told to us by people in power.”

"There were two main trends or tendency within the African-American Freedom Movement of the Sixties (and other Freedom Movements inspired by it).
One was the non-violent resistance exemplified by King and Rosa Parks.
The other was the militant, in-your-racist-face resistance of Robert Williams, Malcolm X and the Black Panthers (who, of course, originated in Oakland).
It's interesting but not surprising that the former gets all kinds of validation in the schools and holidays today while the other is scarcely mentioned or honored if at all.
In any case, King and Malcolm, despite their different ideologies and approaches, appreciated the value of each other. They were like a "good-cop"/"bad-cop" routine against the ruling elite, without which the achievements in the ways of Civil Rights during that era would not have come about.
I believe Malcolm said it straight-out in his visit to Selma speaking to the southern racists: "If you don't want to deal with King, you're going to have to deal with people like me."
And his words were already starting to be backed-up by urban rebellions."

--VermontLeftist, Comment, February2012--
Why #OWS Needs to Denounce Violent Tactics on Display at Occupy Oakland | Alternet

The Black Freedom Movement and Chris Hedges' Misuse of History
By Jay Moore
February 16, 2012
Jay Moore, "The Black Freedom Movement and Chris Hedges' Misuse of History"

How Nonviolence Protects the State (e-Book)
Since the civil rights era, the doctrine of nonviolence has enjoyed near-universal acceptance by the US Left. Today protest is normally shaped by cooperation with state authorities-even organizers of rallies against police brutality apply for police permits, and anti-imperialists commonly stop short of supporting self-defense and armed resistance. How Nonviolence Protects the State challenges the belief that nonviolence is the only method to fight for a much better world. In a call bound to stir controversy and lively debate, Peter Gelderloos invites activists to take into account diverse tactics, passionately arguing that exclusive nonviolence normally acts to reinforce the exact same structures of oppression that activists seek to overthrow.
Contemporary movements for social change face lots of hard questions, but occasionally matters of technique and tactics obtain low priority. Numerous North American activists fail to scrutinize the role of nonviolence, never posing important questions:
Is nonviolence effective at ending systems of oppression?
Does nonviolence intersect with white privilege and also the dominance of North over South?
How does pacifism reinforce the exact same power dynamic as patriarchy?
Ultimately, does nonviolence protect the state?
Peter Gelderloos is a radical community organizer. He is the author of Consensus: A New Handbook for Grassroots Political, Social, and Environmental Groups along with a contributor to Letters From Young Activists. He is the co-facilitator of a workshop on the prison system, and is also involved in independent media, copwatching, anti-oppression work, and anarchist organizing.
Semi-Abridged 2nd Edition
By Peter Gelderloos
2007
http://ebooksfreedownload.org/2011/01/peter-gelderloos-how-nonviolence-protects-the-state.html

"Stop The Machine" Or How To Demoralize A Movement
By John A. Murphy
October 07, 2011
http://wrongkindofgreen.org/2011/10/07/stop-the-machine-or-how-to-demoralize-a-movement

Nonviolence: Its Histories and Myths
By Professor Michael Neumann
February 08, 2003
Nonviolence: Its Histories and Myths - Professor Michael Neumann

A Conversation About Nonviolence
Eric Stoner responds to Stephen Zunes: Yes, nonviolent movements have achieved important democratic and political reforms. But if they fail to address the divide between rich and poor, are they really success stories?
By Eric Stoner
November 13, 2009
A Conversation about Nonviolence and Poverty :: Eric Stoner Responds to Stephen Zunes
 
Its interesting how far some will reach in order to make excuses for these people. Pandering to their endless claim of victimhood when in reality, they are the victims of their own culture. When everything in their culture glorifies violence and crime, from music, to peer pressure to commit crime, its easy to see that they have cultivated this culture on their own and continue to marinate themselves in it. I have absolutely no remorse for these people. I think if they continue to be violent, they should continue to be targeted and profiled. Sorry, that is just my honest opinion.
 
The way I look at it the rioting has nothing to with culture. It is about incessant police brutality to the extreme so much so rival gangs has united against the police.
 
Its interesting how far some will reach in order to make excuses for these people. Pandering to their endless claim of victimhood when in reality, they are the victims of their own culture. When everything in their culture glorifies violence and crime, from music, to peer pressure to commit crime, its easy to see that they have cultivated this culture on their own and continue to marinate themselves in it. I have absolutely no remorse for these people. I think if they continue to be violent, they should continue to be targeted and profiled. Sorry, that is just my honest opinion.

You're not wrong.

While I'm really not seeing the people who are making excuses for "those people," the ones who are causing violence should be dealt with swiftly and without remorse.

The people who are legitimately upset over what happened to Freddy Gray have a point. Those are not the people who are rioting. The people who are rioting are criminals.
 
Some of the fuits of one of the most divisive Presidents in US History and one of the most race-obsessed Attorney Generals in US History.
 
The way I look at it the rioting has nothing to with culture. It is about incessant police brutality to the extreme so much so rival gangs has united against the police.

And that's not good. Gang members are CRIMINALS. Are the cops, sometimes? Yes. So are these thugs.

This has been brewing for a long time, and it's not going to end well.
 
Some of the fuits of one of the most divisive Presidents in US History and one of the most race-obsessed Attorney Generals in US History.

You're a fucking idiot.
 
Such a response says more about you than about me.

If you're going to sit there, new guy, and blame Obama for something that has been brewing for decades, you're an ignorant idiot and I don't want a damn thing to do with you.

If your first instinct is to make this into a partisan issue, you're an asshole.
 
And that's not good. Gang members are CRIMINALS. Are the cops, sometimes? Yes. So are these thugs.

This has been brewing for a long time, and it's not going to end well.

What is the police doing to quell the riots. Where are the water-cannons, tear gas etc.?
 
The way I look at it the rioting has nothing to with culture. It is about incessant police brutality to the extreme so much so rival gangs has united against the police.
Obviously, we don't know the voracity or details of this report.

But the profundity of it was not lost on me, either.

Wow - if true.
 
In other words, people are angry because they're coming to the conclusion that things haven't changed all that much and police officers can still be violence against blacks without concern for any real punishment. When that happens, it leads to riots and it's not a white or black thing. It's a human thing. People riot and protest when they feel the state has not fulfilled its duties or lived up to its claims of reform. That is what I feel is happening here.

Thank you too for a thoughtful post. But here when you say "people are angry," you need to distinguish between those who have gathered to protest for the purpose of demanding answers--overdue--about Freddie Gray and those who are destroying their own neighborhoods and trying to seize opportunities. They don't give a damn about Freddie Gray, and they're a distraction.

It's not just Baltimore that needs answers--concerned citizens across the nation are troubled too and want to know how this young man came to die. This should be about Freddie Gray. There is no excuse for the rioting and looting, and I don't think that the people perpetrating these crimes are coming to any conclusions because they aren't thinking at all.

I hope the presence of the National Guard will settle the situation down so that the good, decent people of Baltimore can rest easy in their own homes and not fear for their businesses.
 
Valerie is the boss. Hogan's Heroes will be the National Guard. They'll set up a perimeter, and let the cops deal with what's inside.

Valerie is the Boss? What experience does she have running a city? What could she possibly know about being a Governor?

Clearly she is a waste of time to talk to.....Hogan would have every Right to not deal with her and go straight to the source.
 
If you're going to sit there, new guy, and blame Obama for something that has been brewing for decades, you're an ignorant idiot and I don't want a damn thing to do with you.

If your first instinct is to make this into a partisan issue, you're an asshole.

You are right, not about the insulting part, but that we can't blame Obama for what has been festering for so long.
Hopelessness, joblessness, frustration, anger, it eventually boils over, and we have had some significant triggers lately.
Obama didn't cause the economy downfall etc by himself. Many before him are to blame as well. And Baltimore didn't turn into a disaster overnight. Look at its history.
But I would agree with those who say that Obama has done very little to keep his promise of bridging the racial divide. People of color looked to him and others, hoping for the promised prosparity, but it never came.
But all that aside, Obama, the esteemed civil rights leaders and the mayor of Baltimore can do something right now, something very important, by calling for calm and by taking a stand against unnecessary violence. He. they should make it clear to the community that violence is not the answer and that those who commit unnecessary violent acts, regardless of skin color or circumstance, will be punished.
Many of us hear the plea and are sympathetic to those who want their voices heard, but seeing this violence hardens the heart.
 
Thank you too for a thoughtful post. But here when you say "people are angry," you need to distinguish between those who have gathered to protest for the purpose of demanding answers--overdue--about Freddie Gray and those who are destroying their own neighborhoods and trying to seize opportunities. They don't give a damn about Freddie Gray, and they're a distraction.

It's not just Baltimore that needs answers--concerned citizens across the nation are troubled too and want to know how this young man came to die. This should be about Freddie Gray. There is no excuse for the rioting and looting, and I don't think that the people perpetrating these crimes are coming to any conclusions because they aren't thinking at all.

I hope the presence of the National Guard will settle the situation down so that the good, decent people of Baltimore can rest easy in their own homes and not fear for their businesses.

Good morning, nota bene. :2wave:

Excellent post! :thumbs: Multiple likes given, even though you only see one!

This mob is only hurting their cause - why can't they see this? Why do we see violence that requires the National Guard to bring it under control? Who is behind this, and why?
 
The chicken or the egg. Blacks constantly accuse white cops of overreacting assuming the blacks have committed a crime but when a "protest" is organized what happens EVERY TIME-looting, burning and trashing, in other words committing crime. It has been this way going way back in time. Blacks see an opening to steal and they do just that. Destroy, destroy destroy.........makes one wonder why they have not BUILT a better society for themselves. The useless, incompetent black mayor of Baltimore literally said to back off and let them riot!
 
The chicken or the egg. Blacks constantly accuse white cops of overreacting assuming the blacks have committed a crime but when a "protest" is organized what happens EVERY TIME-looting, burning and trashing, in other words committing crime. It has been this way going way back in time. Blacks see an opening to steal and they do just that. Destroy, destroy destroy.........makes one wonder why they have not BUILT a better society for themselves. The useless, incompetent black mayor of Baltimore literally said to back off and let them riot!

I wonder if the mayor will be held responsible for the crimes committed during the riots? What about victims who call for police, fire department, paramedics, and they never get the help needed?
 
This mob is only hurting their cause - why can't they see this? Why do we see violence that requires the National Guard to bring it under control? Who is behind this, and why?

Unfortunately, mobs are often driven purely by passion/anger/emotion. Reason and thought of consequences are crowded out by the raw emotion. That's what destroys self-restraint and makes such situations so volatile. Eventually fatigue sets in and the passions evaporate. But, usually by then, the damage has been done, unless order were imposed earlier to thwart the mob actions.
 
I would think that these gangs have the identities of specific LEOs that have killed brothers, not just a routine call to arms against cops in general. Ergo, the cops on their list will already have a good idea who they are. A pucker moment for , don't ya' know?


Not really, hope the cops shoot these *savages in the head, if true.


(* "savages" refer to those who throw all common decency and civility of rational law and order out the window for personal gain/enjoyment, it refers to no race, color or creed as savages are not limited to any of these in particular).
 
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Yes, and once you are willing to fight a cop. Go for his weapon, continue to run. I no longer give you the benefit of the doubt.



"went for his weapon", is a tall tail, and he was 20 ft away without the weapon when shot in the back.


Good cops look for reasons NOT to shoot people instead of justify a clear violation of the fleeing felon rule, along with several other laws against killing people.
 
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I wonder if the mayor will be held responsible for the crimes committed during the riots? What about victims who call for police, fire department, paramedics, and they never get the help needed?

She can't really be held criminally responsible for the crimes committed by other persons. I guess some owners of businesses might sue the city for lack of protection. The logical way to hold city government responsible is at election time.
 
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