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Thread: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent [W:437]

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    Re: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent changes are

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    I'm glad you agree, though I'm not certain what you're implying when you say "a trace gas thats needed for photosynthesis".

    I think there are destructive attitudes at both ends of the spectrum. I like to think of myself as a person who believes that the science gives evidence that the globe is warming and much of that warming can be attributed to increases in C02 and the majority of C02 comes from burning fossil fuels. Having said that I think under and over reaction can have serious consequences. I am much more moderate in my approach to solutions.

    I suspect that we are close to technologies that will, on their own will reduce our use of fossil fuels over the next 25-50 years. I don't think armageddon will occur before then. Mostly though increases in efficiency, electric cars being an example. They still require fossil fuels as about 67% of electricity in the US comes from the burning of fossil fuels. It is much easier to create technologies to reduce carbon emissions at the source, than at the end user.

    Now the debate should be, rightfully so, about how much technology we should pay for to reduce carbon emissions? Should we retrofit Coal, oil and gas plants with costly technologies? Or should we spend money on longer term goals of finding viable replacements like wind, solar, tidal, geothermal and even increase insulation and efficient technologies?

    IMO there is no silver bullet when you consider the costs of making changes. I realize that overly restrictive rules will only lead to people looking for inexpensive ways to subvert the rules. Case in point a friend of the family has a large business in salvaged cars. He can heat his warehouse with reasonably clean natural gas, or when the prices skyrocket he turns it off and kicks on the waste oil heater that burns used motor oil (he obviously gets for free). Costly taxes and restrictions will have a rate of diminishing return as they become more expensive on the general public and I for one realize that.

    Honestly, I think inexpensive common sense ideas are best for existing fossil fuel plants, and R&D for all the other "green technologies" based on real world viability.

    It's a conversation worth having if we could just get the moderates on both sides to ignore the zealots.
    Let the principles of the Free market make the determination of what's viable as far as technological innovation goes and what's snake oil sold under false pretenses.

    Germany is a excellent example of what happens when ideology is allowed to run amok.

    Without intelligent analysis, without open debate they committed to becoming the Worlds first Nation powered exclusively by " renewable energy sources.".

    They shut down their Nuke plants and spent hundreds of Billions of dollars building Solar power plants and building Wind turbines to power their grid.

    Renewable energy sources of-course have to be heavily subsidized and its the consumers who've had to bear those massive cost increases as they currently pay over 300 percent more than the average American for their electricity.

    Their own Finance minister came out last year and publicly declared their " Energy revolution " as a total failure.

    Since Solar and Wind are susceptible to inherent lags the German Government has had to build new Coal fired ( lignite ) power plants and now they rely more on Coal than their " clean energy " solutions for their electricity.

    What that means is the German citizens pay 300 percent more for their electricity and their air is dirtier than it was prior to Merkel shutting down their nuke plants.

    Global warming is proven with Computer models built with fudged data and processes that have nothing to do with " Science ".

    "Homogenizing " ( manipulating ) temperature data to arrive at a predetermined conclusion is not Science, its fraud.

    Science involves the objective and honest analysis of EMPERICAL data. What Federal agencies like the NOAA have done is to ignore those basic standards. They've replaced them with arbitrary standards and processes that always back their predetermined conclusions

    " Homogenized " temperature data always seems to prove that the Globe is warming.

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    Re: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent changes are

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    Nothing that is occurring with the climate is inconsistent with the science.
    The poster you're responding to does not know anything about science, because when I asked him to define the scientific technique he was criticizing--statistical homogenization--he can't.

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    Re: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent changes are

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The poster you're responding to does not know anything about science, because when I asked him to define the scientific technique he was criticizing--statistical homogenization--he can't.
    I DID respond.

    You must have ignored it. Ok, one more time.

    In 2012, the NOAA declared July 2012 to be the hottest month on record, surpassing July 1936 as the previous record holders. Here's their article....

    The Summer of 2012 -- Too Hot to Handle? - NASA Science

    And the NOAA's " Scientific " graph that shows July 2012 exceeding July 1936 as the Hottest month on record.

    noaa_usavg_temps_july_focuson_1936_from_20121.jpg

    After a outside SCIENTIST exposed their process of manipulating ( Homogenizing ) temperature data the NOAA, a tax payer funded Federal Agency rescinded their claim. Here's their NEW graph correcting their propaganda. They posted it in June 2014.

    noaa_usavg_temps_july_focuson_1936_from_20141.jpg

    Interesting. If Homogenization is a accepted practice WHY did the NOAA change their minds ? Oh I know why. They were exposed by a REAL Scientist not affiliated with the NOAA.

    Ironic isn't it ? You claiming to be more knowledgeable than me or anyone else Scientifically when you don't even have a basic comprehension of the Scientific Method and how its used to separate fact from fiction ( AGW )

    Taking EMPIRICAL data that supposed to be analyzed objectively and running it through some kind of arbitrary filter meant to arrive at a predetermined conclusion is NOT Science. It's fraud

    Fraud isn't isolated to Federal Agencies in the US run by Progressives. The Australian Meteorology Association got busted manipulating data too..

    Australian Bureau of Meteorology accused of Criminally Adjusted Global Warming - Breitbart

    " At Rutherglen, Victoria, a cooling trend of -0.35 degrees C per century was magically transformed at the stroke of an Australian meteorologist’s pen into a warming trend of 1.73 degrees C per century.

    Last year, the Australian Bureau of Meteorology made headlines in the liberal media by claiming that 2013 was Australia’s hottest year on record. This prompted Australia’s alarmist-in-chief Tim Flannery – an English literature graduate who later went on to earn his scientific credentials with a PhD in palaeontology, digging up ancient kangaroo bones – to observe that global warming in Australia was “like climate change on steroids.”
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    Re: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent changes are

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But that's the problem, this isn't science. Science produces models which make predictions and those predictions are tested against reality to see if the models are accurate. Virtually none of the models have been borne out by reality. Almost all of the predictions have turned out to be entirely false.
    The global warming issue centers around evidence documenting that increases in average global temperatures since the dawn of the industrial revolution is attributed primarily to man-made substances (greenhouse gases),

    And that evidence is largely based on the nature of the atomic isotopes forming the bulk of the CO2 molecules trapped in the atmosphere--the heavier atoms in the molecules cannot be formed through natural phenomena.

    Cite the evidence showing that this evidence is false and/or that the CO2 isotopes did not originate from artificial sources.

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    Re: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent changes are

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I DID respond.

    You must have ignored it. Ok, one more time.

    In 2012, the NOAA declared July 2012 to be the hottest month on record, surpassing July 1936 as the previous record holders. Here's their article....<snip>
    You were asked to define statistical homogenization in your own words, and yet nothing you posted contained that.

    Once again--if you don't understand what you're criticizing, there's no point in reading your "arguments." NEXT.

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    Re: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent changes are

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Because people need to be educated on the fraud that is AGW.
    It looks more like right wingers have to be educated, since they keep arguing against terms/phrases that don't know the meaning of

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    Re: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent changes are

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Let the principles of the Free market make the determination of what's viable as far as technological innovation goes and what's snake oil sold under false pretenses.
    Excellent, then tell your konservatives pols to quit subsidizing oil cos. with taxpayer monies and stop shielding them from liabilities for their spills, since both are incompatible w/a free market.

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    Re: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent changes are

    Next time I think you should read what they actually said:
    https://nicholas.duke.edu/news/globa...st-case-models
    “By comparing our model against theirs, we found that climate models largely get the ‘big picture’ right"

    Duke Researcher Denounces Rush Limbaugh's "Ridiculous" Distortion Of His Global Warming Study | Blog | Media Matters for America
    "The idea that there 'isn't any warming' is ridiculous. Over the past century there are countless datasets indicating warming (weather stations, sea level, ice mass, ocean temperatures, etc.).
    [...]
    Our study shows that we are probably not on the worst-case IPCC scenario but that we may be on an IPCC middle-of-the road scenario. The IPCC does not make predictions they make hypothetical projections. So this result does not contradict the IPCC conclusions at all.

    The study also stated that natural variability "can slow or speed the rate of warming from decade to decade," and cited this as a reason not to be over-reliant on "short-term temperature trends."
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    Re: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent changes are

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    Most of the current models to date are accurate to well within 1%....
    So the polar ice caps really did entirely disappear in 2013, huh?
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    Re: Our climate models are WRONG: Global warming has slowed - and recent changes are

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis007 View Post
    true.. but its far far from exact and like you said a range... also soil nutrients etc are huge variables
    There's more evidence--glaciers, the ice age, fossil record, study of rocks, etc.--

    Past climates &ndash; evidence | Climate change | Discovering Geology | British Geological Survey (BGS)

    However, conservatives don't know anything about geology since they claim the Earth is 4000 years old.

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