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Thread: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

  1. #341
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    Re: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You have made it abundantly clear in discussion that you are completely in favor of preferences for rich kids but against them for minorities. Preferences are preferences and all the fancy parsing of pretend distinctions is irrelevant to that concept. If anyone has intellectual integrity - they should oppose them all if they oppose any.

    I believe and support a system of college admissions by pure merit when the best are judged by their record and nothing else. Do you?
    I don't. You're missing an important part of the picture - the ability to pay. You know that quality that actually gives the university the ability to take those poor students in the first place, paying students.

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    Re: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess you don't even bother reading posts

    1) lynch got into Harvard Law due to her race

    2) her Harvard law diploma was a major factor in her getting several jobs

    if she had gone to a law school based on her qualifications, her ability to end up as AG would have been lessened. DUH
    I read them and quote you and respond directly. And you're walking back your earlier comments so I guess that's a good thing. Now it's "lessened," but what you maintained for a couple of days was it was "SOLELY" because of her race. So there's that....

    Can't really argue with "lessened." If you'd not been born a legacy, your ability to end up wherever you are would be lessened for all kinds of reasons versus some kid born in Waco to a single mother waitress living in a double wide. We don't live in a true meritocracy and people get 'unfair' breaks every minute of every day. That's certainly true in politics. Oh well....

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    Re: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I see none of the Obama fan boys on this thread want to deal with this question

    DOES ANYONE BELIEVE that these two successive black appointees to the AG office were the best and the brightest attorneys Obama could find in the Department of Justice?
    probably not. do you believe that the best and brightest attorney is always the one who should be moved into the leadership position? the most skilled worker doesn't always make the best fit for the management job. for instance, a person can be brilliant at computer programming but not know how to manage people or make big decisions.

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    Re: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    To be fair, most politicians have "no problem" with this. It means they can cut taxes on the wealthy because they save on the police.. and the police can steal from the poor and middle class instead.
    Regardless of how most politicians feel, I am uneasy when the Attorney General who seems so comfortable with the practice.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    Re: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

    Quote Originally Posted by TextDriversKill View Post
    If white people got into college thru govt-mandated quotas (affirmative action) we would care.
    I don't think Harvard's affirmative action programs were government mandated quotas. Not sure it matters with respect to Lynch. She DID get into Harvard and HLS, and she graduated from both. How she did get in really isn't at all relevant, 35 years later, as to her current qualifications for the AG position.

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    Re: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Lets see if you can answer some preliminary questions


    If someone graduates with at most a 3.5 average from harvard and hundreds and hundreds of whites with 3.7 or better are turned down by HLS

    Is it reasonable to believe the successful candidate in question got affirmative action

    IF Harvard law at the time added .5 points to the GPA of black candidates and 130 points to the LSAT score is it fair to believe that accepted black candidates had lower scores than many many whites who didn't get in?
    YOur questions are disconnected from the post of mine you pretend to be replying to. I was poking fun at your contention that President Obama selected the Attorney General because she is a black female. What does this have to do with you pretending that you know the reason she was selected even though you clearly state he had not said this?

    But I will answer your questions honestly and directly even though the same is rarely extended to myself: yes, it is reasonable to believe that candidates were admitted to Harvard Law using affirmative action - IF the only criteria is LSAT scores, GPA and ones race.

    And yes, it appears that whites with higher scores were denied admission in favor of others.

    Are those the only things considered for admission? Or are there other factors?

    And as long as you are excusing things like legacy admissions - all you are really quibbling about is which preferences are acceptable to you. When are you going to have some intellectual integrity and argue that ALL persons should be judged by the same standard and that NOBODY should get preferences?
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    Re: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I don't. You're missing an important part of the picture - the ability to pay. You know that quality that actually gives the university the ability to take those poor students in the first place, paying students.
    And just so we are all on the same page with the same information at hand, just how many POOR LEGACY admissions does Harvard make each year?
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the real issue is

    IS LORETTA LYNCH THE BEST AVAILABLE PERSON FOR THE JOB
    Let us go for a minute with this question: what is the criteria for answering that question? By what standards would "the best available person" be determined and whose judgment is important in making that determination"
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    Re: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If forced to state an opinion on affirmative action/admissions preferences - frankly I'm not upset either way - I'd oppose them based on race, but support them based on economic condition. There are parents in NYC fighting to get their kids into $20,000 a year pre-school because they think it will help them get into an elite college. Those kids' entire lives are devoted to that goal, with access to the best schools, tutors, test prep services, etc. and they have an enormous advantage over some girl in Idaho attending the public school. The problem I have with race based preferences is some black kid in Harlem's biggest obstacle to getting into Harvard isn't race in 2015 but poverty and crap schools, same as his white counterparts in the same school. I can't justify giving a black kid a preference not available to his white or hispanic or asian counterparts.
    Is this not a problem that can be dealt with through more scholarships targeted at the economically disadvantaged?
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    Re: Senate confirms lynch as attorney general. 10 "republicans" vote for her

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Is this not a problem that can be dealt with through more scholarships targeted at the economically disadvantaged?
    Not entirely. As TD alludes to throughout this discussion, admission to Harvard et al. is at least a partial ticket to a number of high profile jobs. People who attend develop a lifetime of important contacts that open an extraordinary number of doors. If you attend an elite school, many of your classmates WILL BE pillars of industry, academia, law, government, etc. It's an invaluable experience, and no amount of scholarship money offsets the advantages that kids enjoy who have a lifetime of access to the best schools that are designed from the ground up to prepare students for admission to Harvard etc.

    Obviously, Harvard can do what it wants, but I have no problem and would support them giving some preferences to kids from public schools, over kids from a $30,000/year elite private school. If the records are remotely comparable, it's safe to say the kid from public school likely 'achieved' more in HS given the disadvantage in their access to schools, test preps, etc. Put another way, if the admissions are purely a score and record driven merit based process, a wealthy kid is born approaching second and on his way to third, and a poor kid is at the plate with an 0-2 count. I don't think anyone has to pretend that they each have the same opportunities, and I have no problem with schools recognizing that by giving some preferences to those with the disadvantaged background.

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