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Thread: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Dood gave up his American rights when he took up arms against the country and declared allegiance elsewhere. These were enemy combatants. I like the 'were' part. They are now dead parrots.
    Um, youre saying that American hostage who was killed was an enemy combatant?

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Um, youre saying that American hostage who was killed was an enemy combatant?
    Does that SOUND like who was being discussed?

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Is it any wonder groups like ISIS believe they can beat us? In a thread where the president killed terrorists, people are bemoaning the poor Americans loss of constitutional rights and ****ing arguing about Reagan and Truman.
    I don't know what ISIS believes - but there was a time when America and Americans stood for certain principles and the rule of law was one of them. We've seen that eaten away over the past number of decades, with Iran/Contra - with Clinton/Lewinski - with waterboarding - and now with drone assassinations, the NSA, and a President who believes he alone should determine which laws should be enforced and which ones not.

    Holding onto the moral high ground takes work.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't know what ISIS believes - but there was a time when America and Americans stood for certain principles and the rule of law was one of them. We've seen that eaten away over the past number of decades, with Iran/Contra - with Clinton/Lewinski - with waterboarding - and now with drone assassinations, the NSA, and a President who believes he alone should determine which laws should be enforced and which ones not.

    Holding onto the moral high ground takes work.
    Horse****. Some dirtbag decides to take up with terrorists on foreign soil they arent US Citizens covered by the Constitution...they are terrorists and they are targets. Thats logic regardless of who is sitting in the WH.

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    In regards to just the production cost, yes, drones are cheaper. But they also cause much more collateral damage, are less flexible in how they can be used, incapable of adapting to changing situations (as someone stated earlier, the only real options available whenever something changes are continue mission or abort mission), and they are unpopular with a lot of people. Overall, they have a very high opportunity cost compared to just sending in soldiers.

    edit: Oh, and soldiers don't burn thousands of dollars of revenue every hour they spend in the field, and recruit way fewer terrorists than the drones do.



    Evidence suggests that the trauma of living under drones causes anti-American resentment and aids in the recruitment for violent extremism. According to a former State Department official, for every drone strike, the U.S. generates roughly forty to sixty new enemies. Such long term damage is known as “blowback” – incidents that arise in later years as an unintended consequence of actions taken today.

    FCNL: Understanding Drones
    I am not arguing against your position. Just pointing out.. there is massive costs involved when it comes to troops. Troops have to be flown in, paid, given the best/forefront equipment in the world, and then you have benefits and so on for the families. So no it's not as simple as that.

    Any action the US does will cause a reaction. Boots on the ground is just as traumatic and causes anti-American resentment. You think Americans would realize Iraq and Afghanistan isn't that simple as fight "terrorism". We are fighting the locals. That's their land and they aren't gonna quit. Sure there are some groups that Americans know about.. and media reports on.. because they are buzzwords.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Horse****. Some dirtbag decides to take up with terrorists on foreign soil they arent US Citizens covered by the Constitution...they are terrorists and they are targets. Thats logic regardless of who is sitting in the WH.
    Let's for arguments sake say that a couple of ISIS elements breached the White House and held the Obama family hostage. According to your argument, it would be perfectly reasonable to send a drone to bomb the White House in order to kill the couple of terrorists even though the hostages, in this case the First Family, would also be killed in the process. I'm guessing the vast majority of Americans would disagree with you.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Let's for arguments sake say that a couple of ISIS elements breached the White House and held the Obama family hostage. According to your argument, it would be perfectly reasonable to send a drone to bomb the White House in order to kill the couple of terrorists even though the hostages, in this case the First Family, would also be killed in the process. I'm guessing the vast majority of Americans would disagree with you.
    Dont make stupid analogies. Thats just....beyond the pale stupid. How do you even BEGIN to equate the scenarios? The intel had no indication of civilians or hostages. It DID have (confirmed) actionable intel of the presence of terrorists.

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Dont make stupid analogies. Thats just....beyond the pale stupid. How do you even BEGIN to equate the scenarios? The intel had no indication of civilians or hostages. It DID have (confirmed) actionable intel of the presence of terrorists.
    So, in your view, civilian and/or hostage casualties are irrelevant to the goal of killing a couple of terrorists. As such, why is my analogy/scenario stupid? Is it because aid workers' lives aren't worth worrying about?
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    So, in your view, civilian and/or hostage casualties are irrelevant to the goal of killing a couple of terrorists. As such, why is my analogy/scenario stupid? Is it because aid workers' lives aren't worth worrying about?
    Tragic. All care to be avoided when at all possible. Casualties of war. And fighting terrorism IS a war. Yes.

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Dood gave up his American rights when he took up arms against the country and declared allegiance elsewhere. These were enemy combatants. I like the 'were' part. They are now dead parrots.
    No, you can only be stripped of your rights by the court system. US Government has to bring you to trial and a trial has to take place to strip citizenship. You can voluntarily give up your citizenship but you can only do that overseas and in front U.S. consular officer. To even further explain.. Brandenburg v. Ohio (US Supreme Court) ruled that Free Speech extends to advocacy of violence and revolution against the State. Also the US Congress hasn't declared war either, but rather a AUMF. So from the start US has to filed charges and try them before anything. US hasn't bothered actually following the damn law.

    So while you want to remain ignorant of the facts, throw away facts and accept assassination.. go ahead. But I will not.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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