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Thread: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

  1. #101
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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Before you try and educate me.. let me help you.. US didn't declare war on anybody. They used a authorized use of military force (AUMF). Thus the US is not at war with anybody so rules of warfare don't apply and was the basis of the argument for detaining those captured without trial. So US hasn't declared war in Pakistan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, or even the Philippines. So by law it's not a War.
    Not exactly. The terrorists are "unlawful combatants" as defined by the laws of war. Moreover, prisoners of war may be detained without trial for the duration of the conflict. In the case of this war, that could be several decades.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Before you try and educate me.. let me help you.. US didn't declare war on anybody. They used a authorized use of military force (AUMF). Thus the US is not at war with anybody so rules of warfare don't apply and was the basis of the argument for detaining those captured without trial. So US hasn't declared war in Pakistan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, or even the Philippines. So by law it's not a War.
    War doesn't need to be declared for the rules of warfare to be applied, this is your mistake here mate. A person who takes arms against his nation and poses an active threat to its safety or the safety of its citizens (e.g. a terrorist) can be killed at the spot. The US didn't need to formally declare war on Japan during the Pearl Harbor attack to be allowed to kill an American citizen who targets its bases along with the Japanese fellas.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Okay. So just to understand you VanceMack.. 9/11 victims were Casualties of War, correct? Then why the **** did they get money from the Government? September 11th Victim Compensation Fund was created to prevent victims from suing the airlines. But if it was considered an act of war then it the airlines couldn't have been sued as it was an "act of war".

    Terrorism is a war which is equal to the War on Drugs. It's not a real war. No FORMAL declaration of war has never been passed by Congress. AUMF are used to subvert the law so Presidents and others can twist law in their own warped way to justify illegal spying, collection of data and assassinating Americans. Btw, you know how the Obama admin justified their "assassination" position? Using Israeli law. Not American law.
    Greetings, austrianecon.

    How does Israeli law differ from ours in this instance?

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That presumes the US felt a need to inform or consult with the Israeli government.

    Did the US administration inform the Pakistanis of this terrorist hideout and give them the opportunity to raid it themselves? While Pakistan is far from perfect allies, they have been fighting terrorist elements within their borders for years now. Or is the sovereignty of some nations irrelevant to America - might means right.
    This isn't an issue of sovereignty alone but also an issue of capability.
    According to international law once it is proven that a sovereign nation cannot take care or is unwilling to take care of a threat posed by a citizen or organization based in the lands under its sovereignty then the nation that is being threatened by that citizen and/or organization has a right to "violate" the sovereign state's sovereignty and target the organization.

    In the case of Israel it's obvious it is capable of taking care of such threats within its own territory, certainly in such a non-hostile place as the city of Haifa which is the third largest city in Israel. It's akin to the French police handling the attack on the kosher market in Paris. So you are still engaging in an hyperbole here since Pakistan is a completely different case.
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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That presumes the US felt a need to inform or consult with the Israeli government.

    Did the US administration inform the Pakistanis of this terrorist hideout and give them the opportunity to raid it themselves? While Pakistan is far from perfect allies, they have been fighting terrorist elements within their borders for years now. Or is the sovereignty of some nations irrelevant to America - might means right.
    Not sovereignty, trustworthiness.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Eh? Cause you know how to police Gaza.
    Gaza is a hostile territory that is outside of Israel, thus terror threats from its lands are A) the responsibility of the IDF and not the Israeli police and B) cannot be handled by a counter-terror unit since it's an extremely hostile land so the best option is always from the air.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    War doesn't need to be declared for the rules of warfare to be applied, this is your mistake here mate. A person who takes arms against his nation and poses an active threat to its safety or the safety of its citizens (e.g. a terrorist) can be killed at the spot. The US didn't need to formally declare war on Japan during the Pearl Harbor attack to be allowed to kill an American citizen who targets its bases along with the Japanese fellas.
    Wrong, absolutely wrong. Under US law, it does. If no war is declared activities are considered criminal which means one has to be arrested. Period.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Wrong, absolutely wrong. Under US law, it does. If no war is declared activities are considered criminal which means one has to be arrested. Period.
    So I guess American soldiers should have waited until their president had declared war on Japan before returning fire on these kamikaza jets.

    Obviously.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Wrong, absolutely wrong. Under US law, it does. If no war is declared activities are considered criminal which means one has to be arrested. Period.
    False. See Title 10 vs Title 50.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: American, Italian Hostages Killed in CIA Drone Strike in January

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    No, you can only be stripped of your rights by the court system. US Government has to bring you to trial and a trial has to take place to strip citizenship. You can voluntarily give up your citizenship but you can only do that overseas and in front U.S. consular officer. To even further explain.. Brandenburg v. Ohio (US Supreme Court) ruled that Free Speech extends to advocacy of violence and revolution against the State. Also the US Congress hasn't declared war either, but rather a AUMF. So from the start US has to filed charges and try them before anything. US hasn't bothered actually following the damn law.

    So while you want to remain ignorant of the facts, throw away facts and accept assassination.. go ahead. But I will not.
    Feel free to 'not' and be morally outraged.

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