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Thread: Auschwitz bookkeeper admits "moral guilt" at Holocaust trial

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    Re: Auschwitz bookkeeper admits "moral guilt" at Holocaust trial

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    What is interesting is that he seems to have had very little to to with the actual cutting edge of the business and decided to volunteer for fighting duty to get away from the nastiness of camp duties. This means he was at arms length and not a weapon in hand or line of command perpetrator. This would be one step further than any other defendant and would pose an essential question not yet asked in Germany or, better, actively avoided by applying a theory, whereby collective guilt does not extend to persons that did not directly participate. So in effect the court id hearing a case of a new category that would mean, if a conviction is returned that a much wider group was now considered criminal. That would be very interesting in a constitutional sense, as it would require resistance to crimes by the government from a very wide portion of the population.
    He was there from sometime in 42 to sometime in 44, then took a transfer to the front.
    Guilty is my opinion.
    Those that refused were transferred. No other action that I am aware of as in punishment occurred.
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    Re: Auschwitz bookkeeper admits "moral guilt" at Holocaust trial

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    He was there from sometime in 42 to sometime in 44, then took a transfer to the front.
    Guilty is my opinion.
    Those that refused were transferred. No other action that I am aware of as in punishment occurred.
    That corresponds to my take of the thing.

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    Re: Auschwitz bookkeeper admits "moral guilt" at Holocaust trial

    Quote Originally Posted by TextDriversKill View Post
    Of course it was intentional. They weren't trying to bomb a forest and missed. The allies had a policy of massive urban bombing to destroy civilian morale but many experts say it didn't work. The germans kept right on building planes and tanks till the end. You have to kill the soldiers.
    German war production increased year over year.
    Logistics caused them to lose. They were outproduced and out manned. If I recall the Germans had 8 million under arms at the end.
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    Re: Auschwitz bookkeeper admits "moral guilt" at Holocaust trial

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    That corresponds to my take of the thing.
    Most people were/are unaware of that. And I stand corrected by myself on a point that there was no punishment. 1 Camp was different and one special group as well.

    The Einsatzgruppen had a high rate of soldiers going nuts to say the least. The commanders had wider powers to execute any.
    Many Soldiers refused and were transferred. If you deserted as one post mentioned,you were shot.
    There was one camp I found that was different. Belzec.
    Belzec: Stepping Stone to Genocide - Chapter 6

    In contrast to Reinhardt, Einsatzgruppen SS/Police units engaged in Jewish murder operations had the personal protection of Himmler when refusing to obey execution orders. This protection was without recourse to punishment or courts martial. No such luxury of courts martial was ever entertained in Belzec, as refusal to bow to Wirth's orders was not negotiable. The system of mass murder relied on the absolute fear of retribution by the camp commandants, particularly by Wirth, should they refuse. Josef Oberhauser recalls:

    “Regarding Schluch (SS-Scharführer in Belzec), who Wirth had assigned to the shooting of unfit Jews (in the Lazarett), he said to me, face to face, 'I would have dearly liked to have shot him down in the grave!' Wirth made this remark, not for the reason that Schluch had not carried out an order or had completely refused (to obey it), but only that he had not shown sufficient vigor. This was Wirth. If anyone argued with him, he immediately went for his weapon. None of us were safe, not even me, a close colleague.”[1]
    Einsatzgruppen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    HOLOCAUST: THOSE WHO DEFIED ORDERS TO KILL JEWS DID NOT DIE, RESEARCHER SAYS AT BYU. | Deseret News
    Before a crowded lecture room, Kitterman discussed Hor-nig's story briefly, noting that while 50,000 death sentences were handed down by German Army officials for crimes as minor as stealing mail, no one was shot for refusing to kill innocent people.

    However, officers such as Hornig were imprisoned, beaten, stripped of rank and prestige and threatened with death for their impertinence. Hornig, a staunch Catholic, actually ended up in a Jewish concentration camp with those he did not kill. Even after the liberation, he suffered at the hands of his fellow prisoners because they suspected him of being a German army spy - although he had hidden French Jews beneath his bed to save their lives.
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