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Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Just stop with the asininity. His actions put him there.


And there may have been a reason for that, such as he wasn't able to sit.
That does not automatically speak of negligence.


Only in your imagination.

Here's the thing though, if he was put into that vehicle by someone else, they are assuming the responsibility for his personal safety at that moment. Yeah, he was being a bonehead and deserved to get arrested... but at the moment he was taken into custody, his personal safety became the job of the police.

When you add in the stories surfacing of "rough rides", the picture gets a little more grim. There isn't any direct evidence that this is what happened, but we all assume with some confidence the police smash people's heads into car doors while saying "watch your head" all the time. But this is why people sometimes have a problem with the police (or authority in general): abuses of privilege and denial of responsibility can - and do! - lead to accidents that cause real harm, while the general perception is that those who abuse their authority in such ways almost never get into trouble for it.

The police commissioner intoned that there would be a criminal investigation and a prosecution. I don't know if any conviction will result, but it's a pretty safe bet someone(s) is going to be brought up on charges over this.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

No.
If his injuries were the result of normal force to quell his resistance that is what matters.
If that is the case, the Police did no wrong.


The police commissioner intoned that there would be a criminal investigation and a prosecution. I don't know if any conviction will result, but it's a pretty safe bet someone(s) is going to be brought up on charges over this.
Which is wrong. You do not assume wrong doing and commit to a prosecution until after the facts are in, and only if the facts point to such wrong doing.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

No.
If his injuries were the result of normal force to quell his resistance that is what matters.
If that is the case, the Police did no wrong.

Define "normal force." And there is no indication yet whether his injuries were sustained during or after his arrest... but the commissioner has already publicly stated that officers should have contacted emergency services on several occasions and failed to. That, by itself, is negligent.

Which is wrong. You do not assume wrong doing and commit to a prosecution until after the facts are in, and only if the facts point to such wrong doing.

It seems that the facts are already pointing that way, if we're reading the commissioner right.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

I am sensing a pattern in your posts....What do you have against law and order?

"Law and order" are fine and dandy, BUT, in todays society, there is more , much more .. and without these (respect for one) we have a police state. We need a balance between tolerance and "law and order" , not one without the other.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Define "normal force." And there is no indication yet whether his injuries were sustained during or after his arrest...
His limp body is definitely an indication that he was injured during.


but the commissioner has already publicly stated that officers should have contacted emergency services on several occasions and failed to. That, by itself, is negligent.
:doh
No it is not. That is a commissioner who may be stating something outside of policy/regulation.
What matters is if policy/regulation was followed. And even if it wasn't that does not mean it contributed to his death. That is what investigations are for.


It seems that the facts are already pointing that way, if we're reading the commissioner right.
Wut? iLOL
You are assuming.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Just stop with the asininity. His actions put him there.


And there may have been a reason for that, such as he wasn't able to sit.
That does not automatically speak of negligence.


Only in your imagination.
An investigation MUST be done with an unbiased, non-partisan group .. if this exists ..
Also, the "personal safety" is the responsibility of the individual, NOT the police (primarily) .
And this "buckle up" business .. ludicrous and silly... Something is seriously wrong when its so damned important to "buckle up" ! The "wrong" is not being addressed , only covered up, if it exists at all .. JMO.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Well, j-Mac says that the USDOJ has already begun an investigation which is better than leaving it just to the department in question to investigate themselves. I think some European countries have a very good way of dealing with it that I wouldn't mind seeing tried here. The IPCC, Independent Police Complaints Commission. They investigate and review all forms of misconduct by police officers, including violence, human rights abuses, etc. Their tasks are to ensure that complaints about police abuse are investigated in an adequate manner, and in accordance with the law. The mission of such bodies is primarily to ensure public confidence in police.

"the child must always learn from the adult"
We are, obviously the child; nothing wrong with that ...
To have the police , the system, investigate its self .. highly foolish ! Bias IS a natural occurring thing .
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Not being buckled into a vehicle you never wanted to be in in the first place, while restrained and unable to buckle yourself in or break your fall...

That is called negligence. Passing several opportunities to call paramedics when care was obviously needed trips the scale toward criminal negligence.

It's pretty open and shut. Gray died in police custody by police actions.
I question the degree of police responsibility .. What if a man has a heart attack while being detained ? Of course, this does look to be highly suspicious ..
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

His limp body is definitely an indication that he was injured during.

...which means he most definitely should have been secured in some way inside of the van, doesn't it?

Unless, that is, you believe it's totally reasonable to put a baby in the trunk during rush hour traffic.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

I question the degree of police responsibility .. What if a man has a heart attack while being detained ? Of course, this does look to be highly suspicious ..

If a man has a heart attack while being detained, the officers have a responsibility to provide first aid until the paramedics arrive.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

...which means he most definitely should have been secured in some way inside of the van, doesn't it?

Unless, that is, you believe it's totally reasonable to put a baby in the trunk during rush hour traffic.
Did you not pay attention to what was previously stated?


"And there may have been a reason for that, such as he wasn't able to sit."
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Did you not pay attention to what was previously stated?


"And there may have been a reason for that, such as he wasn't able to sit."

If he had no way to sit.... Doesn't that imply he needed medical attention?
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

What law says that?

The Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

If he had no way to sit.... Doesn't that imply he needed medical attention?
Not any attention that couldn't later be provided.


The Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments.
No, that does not say the Officer's have any such responsibility.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Not any attention that couldn't later be provided.

A person would have to be the dumbest sort of brute to legitimately believe that:
1) a paralyzing neck injury can be dealt with later, and
2) a limp person will be just fine after even a gentle car ride in the back of a van with no form of restraint.


No, that does not say the Officer's have any such responsibility.

Again, it takes a dumb brutality to legitimately believe witholding medical care for a person in your custody does not constitute cruel and unusual punishment, or that allowing a person in custody to die without offering aid doesn't violate a person's right to due process.

Do you believe cops can let prisoners die if they think they deserve it?

I have to conclude you are either being stubborn for an argumentative purpose, or are legitimately damaged as a person. Neither explanation, however, excuses such a bad argument
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

A person would have to be the dumbest sort of brute to legitimately believe that:
1) a paralyzing neck injury can be dealt with later, and
2) a limp person will be just fine after even a gentle car ride in the back of a van with no form of restraint.


Again, it takes a dumb brutality to legitimately believe witholding medical care for a person in your custody does not constitute cruel and unusual punishment, or that allowing a person in custody to die without offering aid doesn't violate a person's right to due process.

Do you believe cops can let prisoners die if they think they deserve it?

I have to conclude you are either being stubborn for an argumentative purpose, or are legitimately damaged as a person. Neither explanation, however, excuses such a bad argument
Holy ****!
Your whole brutally dumb positions are based on assumptions.
For all you know they thought he was faking injury. Which is what many criminals do. Or do you not know that?
Besides that, the lack of a seatbelt may not have contributed to his injury at all. So stop assuming, when it is an absurd thing to do.

As for withholding? Bs! Transferring him to a place he would receive aid is not withholding and is just another absurd assumption on your part.
Prove they knew he needed immediate aid. You are just making absurd arguments. The Mayor saying it was wrong, has no relevance or authority.


 
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Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Uh oh. The report coming out is saying that a witness inside the van is claiming that Gray was intentionally trying to hurt himself
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Uh oh. The report coming out is saying that a witness inside the van is claiming that Gray was intentionally trying to hurt himself
Yeah, won't matter to the police detractors. They'll simply say it's a cover up.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

So Gray hurt himself and Brown's hands weren't up, but screw that. Carry on with the BS narratives anyway, right libbies?
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

*UPDATED* – Did Freddie Gray Have Spinal Surgery (From Prior Car Accident) A Week Before His Arrest?… | The Last Refuge

Read this article, it explains the car accident case by stating it was not actually a car accident that he filled suit for, but for possible lead paint poisoning which occurred for several years due to lead based paint. This occurred while he was a developing teen. If you look at the effects of lead poisoning, one of the possible effects of long term exposure is that it effects bone development and in some cases can lead to Osteoporosis. If he had weakened bones due to lead exposure, it is more then possible that the struggle during his arrest may have caused the fatal injury, which then was made worse by moving his neck all over the place. If he had to be taserd when he was arrested, then he was resisting. The video only shows the arrest, and not what occurred prior, but based on the witnesses, he was taserd. If you look at his arrest record, he also does have an arrest for assault, so he was not only a drug dealer, but a potentially violent drug dealer. Which leads me to believe there is evidence that he resisted arrest, and based on a previous medical condition, was fatally injured during his arrest.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

I laugh at people who say they want an independent investigation. What they really mean, is they want an investigation that finds the cops guilty. If the cops are not found guilty, then the investigator was somehow paid off by the police or the government and another investigation is needed. You could perform 100 investigations, but the only investigation that matters for a lot of you people is an investigation that comes the the conclusion that the cops are guilty.

Not at all. It should protect the police...otherwise it's easy to just use the excuse that there was favoritism or corruption.

If you truly want your innocence verified, then it's certainly more credible from independent sources.

I do understand however, not trusting that even such independent sources may not be impartial or have an agenda.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

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Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

 
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