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Thread: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Clearly, Freddie Gray wasn't a Boy Scout nor a Good Samaritan. But he didn't deserve to die over an odd look shared between himself and police officers or possession of a knife which no one has alleged was used in a crime.
    You are assuming that someone killed him and intentionally.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    Being locked in is a necessity, being buckled in, not so much
    So, being free to unbelt oneself is more important than being able to escape a fire? I'm having a hard time following your point. You seem to be suggesting that it's important to not be belted in so one may escape a fire, yet one must be locked into a van so as to not be able to escape...
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Morning everyone...

    Let me just say a couple of things, my 2 cents if y'all will....

    1. Freddie Grey had a known record for dealing, and using drugs, as well as robbery on his extensive record...Why he was even on the street instead of in jail is problem 1 with our Justice system...

    2. Freddie Grey saw police that day, and they saw him. When that happened he fled...That IS probable cause, so we can all just stop with the false narrative of no probable cause...

    3. Freddie Grey's actions once apprehended by police were of resistance...And we do NOT know exactly what happened during that time taking him into custody. This we will find out at trial, by experts, not in here by armchair activists with agenda's.

    4. The GPS, and tracking software in the van itself has been reported to have not shown anything concerning the ride to jail to be out of the normal parameters of "rides".... No "rough ride occurred...

    5. There is a witness that spoke of it sounding like Grey was thrashing "himself" around the back of the van, before he changed his story, probably to save his own skin while in jail...Remember in Balto..."Snitches get stitches"....

    6. Upon arrest, and subsequent checks, Grey should absolutely have been secured properly in the back of that van. That he was not buckled in at any time is troubling, and is one thing that the officers that first put him in, and more importantly the driver of the van are responsible for, IF it is shown that this contributed to Grey's death.

    7. Mosby, as well as Rawlings-Blake has demonstrated their bias in politicizing, and mishandling this incident from the start...Both should step down, and the case be handed over to a SP, and change of venue immediately.



    There is an enormous amount of speculation going on in here, some of it agenda driven, some of it born of genuine dislike of authority figures like police in general, and alot of it pushed by a media that is not reporting the facts, but rather building a narrative, and forming speculation to fit that narrative going forward....It is sad.
    To the bolded, no it is not. I can make eye contact with a police officer and turn and flee if I like. That's not a crime. There is no probable cause.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nope, you need to look a little closer at Urban policing....Like I said, Freddie Gray was known to the police as a drug user, and dealer. While on patrol, they make eye contact, and Freddie takes off...That I believe, unless you have something that proves it wrong other than you just refusing to think with common sense, IS probable cause to go after, and stop/detain Gray until they find out why he ran...
    Eye contact with officers is not probable cause. Running isn't a crime either.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Further to Lursa...

    "Fleeing from police is not, by itself, illegal in America, and the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that in safe neighborhoods, people not suspected of criminal activity can ignore a police officer who approaches them, even to the point of walking away.

    But courts have set a different standard for places where street crime is common, ruling that police can chase, stop and frisk people if their location contributes to a suspicion of criminal activity."

    Can You Run From Police? US Courts Apply a Double Standard - ABC News

    “There is a Supreme Court case that states that if you are in a high-crime area, and you flee from the police unprovoked, the police have the legal ability to pursue you, and that’s what they did,” Michael Davey told reporters on Wednesday. “In this type of an incident, you do not need probable cause to arrest. You just need a reasonable suspicion to make the stop.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/04/23/after-making-eye-contact-baltimore-chases-ferguson/
    To the bolded! Surely not.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    And nobody was protesting for him then. But now, he's a hometown hero in Baltimore
    Nah, sorry. We're not going to ignore that you feel you can selectively decide who is accorded their civil rights and who isnt.

    And he's not a hero....the cops are seen as criminals. See the difference? They are wrong to riot because they have not been PROVEN to be criminals. And they would be wrong to riot if they are not satisfied with the results of the judicial process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Slipping and falling while banging your head still is the result of your own actions.
    How so?
    When it happens while you are intentionally trying to harm yourself. Yes it is a result of your own actions.
    Had you not been trying to harm yourself and remained seated, you would not have slipped and fell.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I could understand if Freddie Gray was walking around in the back of the van which is possible since he wasn't secured in his seat at any point during transit.
    1.
    2. We have already been informed that the witness said he was thrashing about.

    Do you have any idea of the confined space it is? Why Officers routinely do not secure their passengers?
    The confines are too tight for a prisoner who are acting out.
    Even if shackled, you do not want to expose yourself to anything they can do, such as spitting or biting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Let's look at the evidence and see the errors of your claim.
    There are none.
    The errors are yours as has been shown and will continue to be shown.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, Freddie Gray is restrained but not secured in the van. He's placed on his stomach, face down and head-first into the van in a confined space. How does he "bang his head against the wall" if he's laying face-down on his stomach on the floor? Rather difficult to do wouldn't you think?
    iLOL
    This is you again making my argument.
    It wouldn't have happened at that point.
    That means it happened later.

    You do realize why shackles are put on a person, right?
    Because they are acting out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    At this point you could claim that Freddie Gray was banging his head against the wall of the van, but that would contradict Donte Allen's claim of "4-seconds of a little banging".
    This is you ignoring that his contradictions and denials are not credible.
    If you can't get past that point there is no further reason to continue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, how does his position change from being head-first in the van to ending up feet-first especially if it was a smooth ride from the point Donte Allen became detainee #2 to the time the van reaches the police station?
    Do you or do you not realize that he was acting out?
    And his acting out is consistent with what the witness already told investigators.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    It's reasonable to conclude that there were only two occasions where Freddie Gray had the opportunity to bang his head against the wall:

    1) when he was first put in the van.

    2) when he was picked up off the floor by Officer Porter who helped Freddie Gray unto the bench.
    No it is not.
    That is an unreasonable conclusion.

    The bolt was at the rear of the van.
    He hit his head against the bolt breaking his neck and then fell crushing his voice box.
    Had this happened in the beginning there would have been no reason to put shackles on him, as he wouldn't be acting out.
    And we know from what the witness said to the investigators that he was still acting out while he was in the van.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The only way Freddie Gray's head and neck injuries could possibly be "self-inflicted" is if he stood up on his own after not having been secured to the bench and he somehow fell hitting his head on the bolt. There are only two possible explanations for him falling:

    1) He tripped and fall off balance of his own accord; or,

    2) He slipped and fell from a not so smooth/rough ride.
    #2 is already dismissed as it was a smooth ride.
    So why you bring it up is beyond me.
    #1 could happen while he is acting out.
    And you forgot #3; He purposely rammed his head while acting out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But in either case, the Baltimore PD would still be found to be negligent since they had at least one opportunity to secure Freddie Gray to the bench seat without concern for officer safety since at least one cop was willing to help him unto the bench without requiring assistance from his fellow police officers. Officer Porter wasn't affraid to go in alone at this point. Therefore, it could be reasonable to conclude that he was no longer concerned for his safety. So, why not secure Gray to the bench seat at this point?
    Another wrong assumption.
    You do not need to reach across the prisoner to be able to help him take a seat, but you do to buckle them in.
    The Officer safety reason still existed regardless if he was handcuffed and shackled.
    If an Officer gets that close, as reaching across in such a confined space would necessitate, they can bite you, slam their head into you and even spit in your eyes.
    A prisoner can still be irate and acting out even while shackled.
    So don't bother trying this bs that their was no concern for Officer safety at that point. It simply isn't true.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Besides the previous information about the investigators finding the knife was in violation of the law, we now have one of the Officers trying to force the SA's hand.



    BALTIMORE (AP) — One of the Baltimore police officers who arrested Freddie Gray wants the police department and prosecutor to produce a knife that was the reason for the arrest, saying in court papers that it is an illegal weapon.

    The city's top prosecutor, Marilyn Mosby, said Friday in charging the officer and five others that the knife was legal under Maryland law, meaning they had arrested Gray illegally.

    The motion was filed Monday by attorneys for Officer Edward Nero in Baltimore District Court.


    Officer charged in Gray death contends arrest was legal
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Besides the previous information about the investigators finding the knife was in violation of the law, we now have one of the Officers trying to force the SA's hand.



    BALTIMORE (AP) — One of the Baltimore police officers who arrested Freddie Gray wants the police department and prosecutor to produce a knife that was the reason for the arrest, saying in court papers that it is an illegal weapon.

    The city's top prosecutor, Marilyn Mosby, said Friday in charging the officer and five others that the knife was legal under Maryland law, meaning they had arrested Gray illegally.

    The motion was filed Monday by attorneys for Officer Edward Nero in Baltimore District Court.


    Officer charged in Gray death contends arrest was legal
    But I thought that the knife wasn't found till after the arrest when it fell out of his pocket?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    But I thought that the knife wasn't found till after the arrest when it fell out of his pocket?
    Where do you get that it "fell" out of his pocket?

    No, that is for what he was arrested.
    His suspicious activity was enough to give chase and detain to investigate further.
    Then finding the illegal knife on him gave reason to arrest.
    Had the illegal knife not been found, he would have walked away after finding no evidence of a crime.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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