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Thread: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I get what you are saying Excon, but outside of the absolute legal argument, let's just take it down to common sense, and us two guys talking....When your hands are cuffed behind your back, and your legs shackled to the floor of the van, sitting on a metal bench in a moving van, I think we can both agree that it would be awfully hard to keep your balance even at normal driving conditions...

    If safe transport is the goal, along with safety of the officers involved against claims post trip, then it should behoove them I would think to make sure that incidents like this can not be questioned, considering the make up of the people in charge and their activist bent in going after them....?
    1. His legs were not shackled to the floor of the van.
    2. No it isn't that hard at all, but ... Smooth ride, the witness even said it was and he too wasn't buckled.





    FYI
    For those who thought Mosby couldn't be misrepresenting things, or that there was no probable cause ...

    Meanwhile, a police investigation continues as Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn J. Mosby builds her case. The separate investigations have some conflicting findings.

    While Mosby said Friday that the officers had made an illegal arrest because a knife Gray was carrying was not a "switchblade," a violation of state law, the police task force studied the knife and determined it was "spring-assisted," which does violate a Baltimore code.


    Gunshot at scene of protests underscores tension in Baltimore

    The Prosecutor is all about social agenda and not the truth.
    Last edited by Excon; 05-05-15 at 07:49 AM.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    He was more than happy to desperately latch onto and expound upon it!

    There was just a 'witness report'...one that, once again...he selectively chose to grasp and run with since it met his own agenda. "Selective evidence".....in general, his personal lifeline.

    Nothing objective about it.

    Some things are practically traps, like the falsified stories about his insurance claims...little bits of info heavily bolstered with enough 'honey' to attract.
    More untruths from you. Figures.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Yeah, let's see how the grand jury handles this. "High crime area", "eye contact," and no current warrants? Good luck, esp. in the current...and very real, perceptually, climate of police abuse and killing.

    "No probable cause."

    He posed no visible (and I dont think he had any violent arrests either, maybe assault?) threat to the public. Good luck with 'reasonable suspicion.'
    You keep forgetting that it has been reported that they observed what appeared to be a drug deal.
    That is probable cause to give chase and detain.

    And finding the knife gave them probable cause to arrest.

    Meanwhile, a police investigation continues as Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn J. Mosby builds her case. The separate investigations have some conflicting findings.

    While Mosby said Friday that the officers had made an illegal arrest because a knife Gray was carrying was not a "switchblade," a violation of state law, the police task force studied the knife and determined it was "spring-assisted," which does violate a Baltimore code.


    Gunshot at scene of protests underscores tension in Baltimore

    The Prosecutor is all about social agenda and not the truth.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No, we don't like corrupt cops, get it straight.
    You do not like cops at all.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    1. His legs were not shackled to the floor of the van.
    2. No it isn't that hard at all, but ... Smooth ride, the witness even said it was and he too wasn't buckled.





    FYI
    For those who thought Mosby couldn't be misrepresenting things, or that there was no probable cause ...

    Meanwhile, a police investigation continues as Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn J. Mosby builds her case. The separate investigations have some conflicting findings.

    While Mosby said Friday that the officers had made an illegal arrest because a knife Gray was carrying was not a "switchblade," a violation of state law, the police task force studied the knife and determined it was "spring-assisted," which does violate a Baltimore code.


    Gunshot at scene of protests underscores tension in Baltimore

    The Prosecutor is all about social agenda and not the truth.
    Frankly speaking, if I was riding in the back of a van with my hands cuffed behind my back, I would not want to be buckled in. If there is an emergency, I would be unable to unbuckle myself

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Nonetheless, this doesn't change anything I've said concerning how Freddie Gray may have sustained his neck injury nor who I believe is responsible for his injury and subsequent death.
    I agree, it does not change what you said being wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    And yet you continue to use his flimsy testimony as clear evidence as to what happened on Freddie Gray's side of the police van when all Donte Allen heard was "4-seconds" of "a little banging" coming from Freddie Gray's side.
    Flimsy? iLOL
    What is flimsy is his current statements. Not what he previously told investigators without any known incentive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You're really stretching things here in an attempt to force your interpretation of what happened inside the rear-right detainee section of the police van to fit what actually happened when in truth no one knows for sure what happened.
    You are being untruthful.
    What I said is supported by the evidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But I enjoyed reading this:

    And then more recently this...


    Two separate timelines along with Donte Allen's own statement indicate that the so-called "thrashing" did not occur during the time Donte Allen was a detainee. He only heard 4-seconds of "little banging" and then silence which falls right in line with the estimated time Freddie Gray sustained his neck injury which according to both timelines was 15 minutes after he was arrested, but 5-minutes before Donte Allen became detainee #2.
    This is you ignoring the evidence, as well as the fact that the witnesses current statements lack credibility in light of the reason he is making them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Another minor issue, but it warrants pointing out your hypocrisy here. You asked me to prove that Freddie Gray's neck injury wasn't self-inflected then turn around and insist that another poster "stop the proof argument". Kinda one-sided don't you think?...demanding proof on the one hand but insisting that posters stop asking you to do the same when your arguments don't pan out. It's quite laughable really. In any case, while I can't prove that Freddie Gray's neck injury was not self-inflicted, the autopsy report makes it clear that it is highly unlikely that he inflicted such a severe injury unto himself.
    Holy ****!
    Wrong. There is no hypocrisy there.
    You obviously do not understand what you read.
    It was an argument about evidence.
    Asking for proof of an argument like I did, is not the same as saying a person has no proof in an argument of the evidence like you did.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, if at some time after 8:59 a.m. when the on-scene police officers checked on Freddie Gray a third time and found their suspect/detainee to be "unresponsive", don't you think that would have been the perfect time to request paramedics be dispatched to the scene especially when someone in their custody is no longer breathing? You see, it doesn't matter whether you or anyone else believed he was faking his injuries earlier. What matters is how and if law enforcement responded to his medical needs when it became apparent the he needed medical attention. The fact that "Officer Goodson asked for an additional unit to check on Gray" is a strong indication that they knew something was wrong with their suspect.
    Sources: Baltimore police, State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby.

    Unquoted and actually unsourced.
    And then we have the fact that Mosby is an established liar.


    This bit about he was unresponsive does not mean he was unable to respond like he was at the final stop.
    This stop referenced that he was helped to get on the bench, not forcible put on the bench. You do understand what helped means right? That's an indication that he was conscious.

    And as we know the witness says he was banging his head and thrashing about, so we know he was conscious.
    And as already pointed out asking for an inhaler is faking when he is obvious breathing fine and screaming.

    Your "apparently needs medical attention because of breathing" argument fails.
    What they called for was an ambulance at that stop was for a believed broken arm.
    But then decided to take him to the station.



    For more accuracy, try this out.
    Sourced through video reports.

    Freddie Gray Timeline



    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The above all relates to Donte Allen's statement of events which as I said (and it would appear we both agree) don't require re-hashing. But making claims that Gray's injury was self-inflicted without taking the events of all that occurred into account subsequent to his arrest, being shackled and placed head-first in the back of the van really does make such claims sound ridiculous.

    The above all relates to Donte Allen's statement of events which as I said (and it would appear we both agree) don't require re-hashing. But making claims that Gray's injury was self-inflicted without taking the events of all that occurred into account subsequent to his arrest, being shackled and placed head-first in the back of the van really does make such claims sound ridiculous.
    You keep ignoring that self inflicted is the evidence.
    We have already been told that that is what this sounded like to the witness.
    And a person thrashing around and banging their head during a smooth ride speaks to self infliction as well.

    To show otherwise you are going to have to show, by evidence, that it was not self inflicted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You can argue that he somehow managed to turn himself around while laying on his stomach with his hands cuffed behind his back at the wrist and his ankles in shackles after having been placed on the floor of the van, but when taking his restraints, his physical position in such a confined space into account AND the fact that he was originally placed in the back of the van head-first, the only part that makes sense as to how Freddie Gray could have possibly gotten himself into position where his head is at the back of the van was when he was helped on the bench by Officer Porter but still not secured in a seatbelt. This quite possibly is when Freddie Gray falls to the floor, slams his head on the bolt and breaks his neck.
    And again. Thrashing and banging his head during a smooth ride speaks to his injuries being from his own actions and thus self inflicted.
    Last edited by Excon; 05-05-15 at 09:18 AM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    Frankly speaking, if I was riding in the back of a van with my hands cuffed behind my back, I would not want to be buckled in. If there is an emergency, I would be unable to unbuckle myself
    If there was an emergency, and you had no way of breaking your fall because your hands were tied behind your back, it's likely already too late for you.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Imagine the horror we all faced...and the cop that shot him...when the man that was behind on child support ran from being arrested and was shot fleeing?
    OMG! Nobody got shot here....You don't even know which case you are arguing against cops for do you? You've just shown that it doesn't matter to you, that you are against police regardless of the situation....Nice going.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Yeah, let's see how the grand jury handles this. "High crime area", "eye contact," and no current warrants?
    1. High crime area, and eye contact are the SCOTUS benchmarks...I know you hate that, but that is what the law is.
    2. You have no idea what warrants were out on him, or not. Hell, you have shown you don't even know which black criminal you are discussing.

    "No probable cause."
    You've already been proven wrong on that...Your disagreement is with the Supreme Court...

    He posed no visible (and I dont think he had any violent arrests either, maybe assault?) threat to the public. Good luck with 'reasonable suspicion.'
    I believe that selling drugs IS a violence against the community, Here is Freddie's rap sheet....AGAIN...

    March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
    March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
    January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
    January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
    December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
    December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
    August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
    January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
    September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
    April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
    July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
    March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
    March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
    February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
    August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
    August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
    August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
    July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

    So, as we see here not only was Freddie Gray a Drug dealer, liar, and a thief, but YOU Lursa are wrong on nearly every word you're typing in here...Now, it has become so easy to bat down your own falsehoods in here, you're begining to bore me....Come on...Get with the program here, I mean, it's not like your claims are not able to be verified or anything....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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