"Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
~Orwell, Politics and the English Language
"I know for a fact that he (Gray) did not hurt himself," Donta Allen, who was a fellow prisoner in the van during a portion of the meandering path of the vehicle after Gray was taken into the custody and before medical help was summoned, told CNN's Don Lemon in an interview.And as for a report in the Washington Post that he told investigators he had heard noises indicating Gray was trying to injure himself, "untrue. Very, very, very untrue," said Allen.You just keep spinning your wheels and cling to untrue statements to justify your reality."I know they're gonna try to harass me after this. But I'd rather for them to harass me than my own people to harass me for a lie they made up."
Freddie Gray 'did not hurt himself' says fellow rider - CNN.com
But thank you for providing newer information.
Besides already knowing what the says now is suspect because is in fear, it is obvious that he is lying.
The Commissioner already told us that he said he was thrashing around. It is unlikely that the Commissioner lied.
Funny thing though, he is still saying it sounded like he was banging his head.
And then this idiot's statement that he "knows for a fact" is laughable. He knows no such thing.
If anyone does not realize that, they are not employing reason.
Last edited by Excon; 05-03-15 at 03:07 PM.
"The law is reason, free from passion."
No, but...Are you unfamiliar with the term?
This "ear witness" has changed his story since then now hasn't he? Regardless, per the timeline of events (see links below) and the police's own statements, don't you think it would be difficult if not impossible for Freddie Gray to bang his head against the wall of the van if he remained on the floor on the van throughout the entire ride...42 minutes? Furthermore, how does he injury his head/neck on a bolt located at the back of the van when the police claim they placed him in the van "head-first, on his stomach"?No. I am saying it is the only evidence we have in regards to how they sounded.
You were not there. I was not there. What you or I think of the actual sounds does not matter.
What matters is what he as the ear witness thought of the sounds.
And he keeps saying it sounded like he was banging his head.
A timeline of Freddie Gray's arrest on April 12
It might have been for the 2nd detainee, Donta Allen, but it's questionable whether or not the first 20 minutes of Freddie Gray's were. You keep forgetting (or ignoring) that Donta Allen was picked up at least 20 minutes after Freddie Gray was arrested and 5 minutes before he suffered his neck injury. Isn't it possible that the reason Donta Allen had a smooth ride is because his part of the transit was, in fact, smooth whereas Freddie Gray's was not?No. You keep conveniently ignoring that it was a smooth ride.
You sure didn't feel that way when you asked me prove that it wasn't Freddie Gray's body thrashing about in the back of the police van. But now you want me to stop with the proof argument.Stop with the "proof" argument. We are speaking of evidence.
But even if he were faking his injuries, Baltimore Police Department policy (even their policy from 1997) states:He was pretending not to be able to stand. Then he was able to and even duck into the van. That is evidence that he was faking.
You also seem to forget the reports of him wanting his inhaler, while he did not appear to have any reported breathing difficulties. That is again evidence that he was faking. It is like you do not know that is what criminals do.
Now, despite the fact that on the 3rd spot at 8:59am Freddie Gray had requested medical attention AND that he was unresponsive at their 4th stop, it's very evident that the Baltimore PD were in violation of their own police department policy on handling detainees during transport. We can argue the seatbelt -vs- cuff and leg/ankle restraints (i.e., shackles) and question whether they were sufficient per police policy 'til the cows come home, but there's no debating whether or not the Baltimore PD were negligent in their failure to properly respond to Freddie Gray's medical needs at any point during transport.Ensure medical treatment for a prisoner is obtained, when necessary, at the nearest emergency medical facility.
As to the rest of your response which dwells on the "smooth ride" claim by Donte Allen as per his portion of the trip to the police station, see my commentary above.
Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-03-15 at 07:47 PM.
"A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground
What you quoted indicated the need to make changes to false claims. The fact that they hadn't changed, was the point.
And that reason casts what he now says in doubt, as already stated several times.
That is an obvious indication that he was moving around on his own becasue he had to turn himself around to receive injury from the rear of the van.
No I do not ignore that.
We already know that the supposed witness, as revealed by the Commissioner, said that the other guy was thrashing around and banging his head.
Do you think he would be up with a broken neck and a crushed voice box thrashing around and banging his head?
That means he was up and about, and is an indication that the injury happened to him when the witness was on the other side during that smooth ride.
Asking for proof of an argument like I did, is not the same as saying a person has no proof in an argument of the evidence like you did.
And thus far no one has been able to show any medical treatment was required prior to the arrival at their destination, which is where is was provided.
His lying about needing an inhaler when he was obviously breathing fine and screaming does not necessitate that he be given treatment.
His requesting does not mean he needs it.
All of this has been previously pointed out.
The acceptance of what he says should be based on the surrounding circumstances at the time he made them.
In the case of what he supposedly said to the Police, there exists no reason to doubt he was being truthful. They were made immediately, without any known coercion or in return for any benefit.
His statements now are suspect and he himself tells us why he is saying what he is.
That is a form of coercion placed upon him by his community, and is made in return of a benefit for him. His life.
"The law is reason, free from passion."
Let me just say a couple of things, my 2 cents if y'all will....
1. Freddie Grey had a known record for dealing, and using drugs, as well as robbery on his extensive record...Why he was even on the street instead of in jail is problem 1 with our Justice system...
2. Freddie Grey saw police that day, and they saw him. When that happened he fled...That IS probable cause, so we can all just stop with the false narrative of no probable cause...
3. Freddie Grey's actions once apprehended by police were of resistance...And we do NOT know exactly what happened during that time taking him into custody. This we will find out at trial, by experts, not in here by armchair activists with agenda's.
4. The GPS, and tracking software in the van itself has been reported to have not shown anything concerning the ride to jail to be out of the normal parameters of "rides".... No "rough ride occurred...
5. There is a witness that spoke of it sounding like Grey was thrashing "himself" around the back of the van, before he changed his story, probably to save his own skin while in jail...Remember in Balto..."Snitches get stitches"....
6. Upon arrest, and subsequent checks, Grey should absolutely have been secured properly in the back of that van. That he was not buckled in at any time is troubling, and is one thing that the officers that first put him in, and more importantly the driver of the van are responsible for, IF it is shown that this contributed to Grey's death.
7. Mosby, as well as Rawlings-Blake has demonstrated their bias in politicizing, and mishandling this incident from the start...Both should step down, and the case be handed over to a SP, and change of venue immediately.
There is an enormous amount of speculation going on in here, some of it agenda driven, some of it born of genuine dislike of authority figures like police in general, and alot of it pushed by a media that is not reporting the facts, but rather building a narrative, and forming speculation to fit that narrative going forward....It is sad.
Under that old standard, exceptions for Officer safety are allowed.
This does not raise to the level of criminal negligence.
"The law is reason, free from passion."
If safe transport is the goal, along with safety of the officers involved against claims post trip, then it should behoove them I would think to make sure that incidents like this can not be questioned, considering the make up of the people in charge and their activist bent in going after them....?
Why wasn't Gray wearing a seatbelt?