Page 36 of 49 FirstFirst ... 26343536373846 ... LastLast
Results 351 to 360 of 484

Thread: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

  1. #351
    better late than pregnant
    Gonzo Rodeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Here
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 06:16 PM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    4,123

    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Yes you are wrong, wrong, wrong! In two threads simultaneously. There are no quotes being ignored.
    You are quoting the reporter, not what he said. Funny you do not realize that.

    At no point did he say the police misquoted him, he never said that.

    All you are showing everyone your lack of reading and comprehension skills.

    I know, buddy. Third grade is hard. But you'll get through it! Someday...
    "Saying his words have been distorted by recent reports and that he doesn't think Gray hurt himself intentionally, Allen also told a WJZ reporter, "The only reason I'm doing this is because they put my name in a bad state."
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  2. #352
    Sage
    reinoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Out West
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    15,698
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Yes you are wrong, wrong, wrong! In two threads simultaneously. There are no quotes being ignored.
    You are quoting the reporter, not what he said. Funny you do not realize that.

    At no point did he say the police misquoted him, he never said that.

    All you are showing everyone your lack of reading and comprehension skills.

    I know, buddy. Third grade is hard. But you'll get through it! Someday...
    "I know for a fact that he (Gray) did not hurt himself," Donta Allen, who was a fellow prisoner in the van during a portion of the meandering path of the vehicle after Gray was taken into the custody and before medical help was summoned, told CNN's Don Lemon in an interview.
    And as for a report in the Washington Post that he told investigators he had heard noises indicating Gray was trying to injure himself, "untrue. Very, very, very untrue," said Allen.
    "I know they're gonna try to harass me after this. But I'd rather for them to harass me than my own people to harass me for a lie they made up."
    You just keep spinning your wheels and cling to untrue statements to justify your reality.

    Freddie Gray 'did not hurt himself' says fellow rider - CNN.com
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

  3. #353
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 12:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    You just keep spinning your wheels and cling to untrue statements to justify your reality.

    Freddie Gray 'did not hurt himself' says fellow rider - CNN.com
    We were arguing based on the information we had. And based on that information I have not provided any untrue statement. To say such is a lie.


    But thank you for providing newer information.


    Besides already knowing what the says now is suspect because is in fear, it is obvious that he is lying.
    The Commissioner already told us that he said he was thrashing around. It is unlikely that the Commissioner lied.
    Funny thing though, he is still saying it sounded like he was banging his head.

    And then this idiot's statement that he "knows for a fact" is laughable. He knows no such thing.
    If anyone does not realize that, they are not employing reason.
    Last edited by Excon; 05-03-15 at 04:07 PM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  4. #354
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    10-16-17 @ 12:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,548

    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The only ones who need to change their stories are those who have made false claims like you have.
    Except when I corrected myself acknowledging that I was wrong in stating that Freddie Gray was not running when he was arrested, I haven't changed anything.

    Are you unfamiliar with the term?
    No, but...

    No. I am saying it is the only evidence we have in regards to how they sounded.

    You were not there. I was not there. What you or I think of the actual sounds does not matter.
    What matters is what he as the ear witness thought of the sounds.
    And he keeps saying it sounded like he was banging his head.
    This "ear witness" has changed his story since then now hasn't he? Regardless, per the timeline of events (see links below) and the police's own statements, don't you think it would be difficult if not impossible for Freddie Gray to bang his head against the wall of the van if he remained on the floor on the van throughout the entire ride...42 minutes? Furthermore, how does he injury his head/neck on a bolt located at the back of the van when the police claim they placed him in the van "head-first, on his stomach"?

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...-timeline.html

    A timeline of Freddie Gray's arrest on April 12

    No. You keep conveniently ignoring that it was a smooth ride.
    It might have been for the 2nd detainee, Donta Allen, but it's questionable whether or not the first 20 minutes of Freddie Gray's were. You keep forgetting (or ignoring) that Donta Allen was picked up at least 20 minutes after Freddie Gray was arrested and 5 minutes before he suffered his neck injury. Isn't it possible that the reason Donta Allen had a smooth ride is because his part of the transit was, in fact, smooth whereas Freddie Gray's was not?

    Stop with the "proof" argument. We are speaking of evidence.
    You sure didn't feel that way when you asked me prove that it wasn't Freddie Gray's body thrashing about in the back of the police van. But now you want me to stop with the proof argument.

    He was pretending not to be able to stand. Then he was able to and even duck into the van. That is evidence that he was faking.
    You also seem to forget the reports of him wanting his inhaler, while he did not appear to have any reported breathing difficulties. That is again evidence that he was faking. It is like you do not know that is what criminals do.
    But even if he were faking his injuries, Baltimore Police Department policy (even their policy from 1997) states:

    Ensure medical treatment for a prisoner is obtained, when necessary, at the nearest emergency medical facility.
    Now, despite the fact that on the 3rd spot at 8:59am Freddie Gray had requested medical attention AND that he was unresponsive at their 4th stop, it's very evident that the Baltimore PD were in violation of their own police department policy on handling detainees during transport. We can argue the seatbelt -vs- cuff and leg/ankle restraints (i.e., shackles) and question whether they were sufficient per police policy 'til the cows come home, but there's no debating whether or not the Baltimore PD were negligent in their failure to properly respond to Freddie Gray's medical needs at any point during transport.

    As to the rest of your response which dwells on the "smooth ride" claim by Donte Allen as per his portion of the trip to the police station, see my commentary above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    We were arguing based on the information we had. And based on that information I have not provided any untrue statement. To say such is a lie.


    But thank you for providing newer information.


    Besides already knowing what the says now is suspect because is in fear, it is obvious that he is lying.
    The Commissioner already told us that he said he was thrashing around. It is unlikely that the Commissioner lied.
    Funny thing though, he is still saying it sounded like he was banging his head.

    And then this idiot's statement that he "knows for a fact" is laughable. He knows no such thing.

    If anyone does not realize that, they are not employing reason.
    And yet you've based the bulk of your defense of the Baltimore Police's actions in this case squarely on "this idiot's statement". You do see the irony here, don't you?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-03-15 at 08:47 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  5. #355
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 12:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Except when I corrected myself acknowledging that I was wrong in stating that Freddie Gray was not running when he was arrested, I haven't changed anything.
    This comment makes no sense as a reply to what you quoted.
    What you quoted indicated the need to make changes to false claims. The fact that they hadn't changed, was the point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    This "ear witness" has changed his story since then now hasn't he?
    Yes he has and he even stated why he has changed it.
    And that reason casts what he now says in doubt, as already stated several times.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    don't you think it would be difficult if not impossible for Freddie Gray to bang his head against the wall of the van if he remained on the floor
    Why are you remaking my points?
    That is an obvious indication that he was moving around on his own becasue he had to turn himself around to receive injury from the rear of the van.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    It might have been for the 2nd detainee, Donta Allen, but it's questionable whether or not the first 20 minutes of Freddie Gray's were. You keep forgetting (or ignoring) that Donta Allen was picked up at least 20 minutes after Freddie Gray was arrested and 5 minutes before he suffered his neck injury. Isn't it possible that the reason Donta Allen had a smooth ride is because his part of the transit was, in fact, smooth whereas Freddie Gray's was not?

    No I do not ignore that.
    We already know that the supposed witness, as revealed by the Commissioner, said that the other guy was thrashing around and banging his head.
    Do you think he would be up with a broken neck and a crushed voice box thrashing around and banging his head?
    That means he was up and about, and is an indication that the injury happened to him when the witness was on the other side during that smooth ride.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You sure didn't feel that way when you asked me prove that it wasn't Freddie Gray's body thrashing about in the back of the police van. But now you want me to stop with the proof argument.
    Not even.
    Asking for proof of an argument like I did, is not the same as saying a person has no proof in an argument of the evidence like you did.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But even if he were faking his injuries, Baltimore Police Department policy (even their policy from 1997) states:
    Ensure medical treatment for a prisoner is obtained, when necessary, at the nearest emergency medical facility.
    Which I already pointed out.

    And thus far no one has been able to show any medical treatment was required prior to the arrival at their destination, which is where is was provided.
    His lying about needing an inhaler when he was obviously breathing fine and screaming does not necessitate that he be given treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Now, despite the fact that on the 3rd spot at 8:59am Freddie Gray had requested medical attention AND that he was unresponsive at their 4th stop, it's very evident that the Baltimore PD were in violation of their own police department policy on handling detainees during transport. We can argue the seatbelt -vs- cuff and leg/ankle restraints (i.e., shackles) and question whether they were sufficient per police policy 'til the cows come home, but there's no debating whether or not the Baltimore PD were negligent in their failure to properly respond to Freddie Gray's medical needs at any point during transport.
    Yes it is very debatable.
    His requesting does not mean he needs it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    And yet you've based the bulk of your defense of the Baltimore Police's actions in this case squarely on "this idiot's statement". You do see the irony here, don't you?
    There is no irony there at all.
    All of this has been previously pointed out.

    The acceptance of what he says should be based on the surrounding circumstances at the time he made them.

    In the case of what he supposedly said to the Police, there exists no reason to doubt he was being truthful. They were made immediately, without any known coercion or in return for any benefit.

    His statements now are suspect and he himself tells us why he is saying what he is.
    That is a form of coercion placed upon him by his community, and is made in return of a benefit for him. His life.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  6. #356
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    29,920

    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Morning everyone...

    Let me just say a couple of things, my 2 cents if y'all will....

    1. Freddie Grey had a known record for dealing, and using drugs, as well as robbery on his extensive record...Why he was even on the street instead of in jail is problem 1 with our Justice system...

    2. Freddie Grey saw police that day, and they saw him. When that happened he fled...That IS probable cause, so we can all just stop with the false narrative of no probable cause...

    3. Freddie Grey's actions once apprehended by police were of resistance...And we do NOT know exactly what happened during that time taking him into custody. This we will find out at trial, by experts, not in here by armchair activists with agenda's.

    4. The GPS, and tracking software in the van itself has been reported to have not shown anything concerning the ride to jail to be out of the normal parameters of "rides".... No "rough ride occurred...

    5. There is a witness that spoke of it sounding like Grey was thrashing "himself" around the back of the van, before he changed his story, probably to save his own skin while in jail...Remember in Balto..."Snitches get stitches"....

    6. Upon arrest, and subsequent checks, Grey should absolutely have been secured properly in the back of that van. That he was not buckled in at any time is troubling, and is one thing that the officers that first put him in, and more importantly the driver of the van are responsible for, IF it is shown that this contributed to Grey's death.

    7. Mosby, as well as Rawlings-Blake has demonstrated their bias in politicizing, and mishandling this incident from the start...Both should step down, and the case be handed over to a SP, and change of venue immediately.



    There is an enormous amount of speculation going on in here, some of it agenda driven, some of it born of genuine dislike of authority figures like police in general, and alot of it pushed by a media that is not reporting the facts, but rather building a narrative, and forming speculation to fit that narrative going forward....It is sad.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #357
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 12:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    6. Upon arrest, and subsequent checks, Grey should absolutely have been secured properly in the back of that van. That he was not buckled in at any time is troubling, and is one thing that the officers that first put him in, and more importantly the driver of the van are responsible for, IF it is shown that this contributed to Grey's death.
    If the Officers were not properly informed of the supposed new policy put in place three days earlier in an effective and meaningful manner, their using the old standard would still apply.

    Under that old standard, exceptions for Officer safety are allowed.
    This does not raise to the level of criminal negligence.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  8. #358
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    29,920

    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    If the Officers were not properly informed of the supposed new policy put in place three days earlier in an effective and meaningful manner, their using the old standard would still apply.

    Under that old standard, exceptions for Officer safety are allowed.
    This does not raise to the level of criminal negligence.
    I get what you are saying Excon, but outside of the absolute legal argument, let's just take it down to common sense, and us two guys talking....When your hands are cuffed behind your back, and your legs shackled to the floor of the van, sitting on a metal bench in a moving van, I think we can both agree that it would be awfully hard to keep your balance even at normal driving conditions...

    If safe transport is the goal, along with safety of the officers involved against claims post trip, then it should behoove them I would think to make sure that incidents like this can not be questioned, considering the make up of the people in charge and their activist bent in going after them....?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #359
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,008

    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Why wasn't Gray wearing a seatbelt?

  10. #360
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 09:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Why wasn't Gray wearing a seatbelt?
    Imagine the horror we would have faced when he was choked out by the seatbelt.

Page 36 of 49 FirstFirst ... 26343536373846 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •