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Thread: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    UPDATE:

    BALTIMORE (WJZ) — City State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby says Freddie Gray received his critical injuries in Baltimore police custody and has charged all six officers involved in his death.
    The state medical examiner’s office turned over Gray’s autopsy on Friday morning, a day after the police turned over their investigation into Gray’s death.

    “The findings of our comprehensive, thorough, and independent investigation coupled with the ME’s determination that Mr. Gray’s death was a homicide which we received today, has led us to believe that we have probable cause to file criminal charges,” Mosby said.

    ...

    They found a knife clipped inside his pants packet — the knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law, she said.

    The officers then restrained Gray in a “leg lace,” and held him down until the transport van arrived, while he “flailed and screamed.”

    The officers failed to find probable cause for Gray’s arrest, Mosby said. When the police transport van arrived, he was placed into the wagon driven by Officer Caesar B. Goodson, but without a seatbelt.

    “At no point was he secured by a seatbelt while in the wagon contrary to a BPD general order,” she added. “Despite stopping for the purpose of checking on Mr. Gray’s condition, at no point did he seek nor render any medical assistance for Mr. Gray.”

    Gray was then removed from the wagon at Baker Street, places flex cuffs on his wrists and leg shackles on his ankles — while they completed paperwork. He was then placed back into the wagon’s floor head first and stomach down — without a seatbelt.

    “Following transport from Baker Street, Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside of the BPD wagon,” Mosby said.

    After leaving Baker Street, the officers stopped again to check on Gray’s condition, but they did not seek medical attention for Gray. Again, Goodson drove off without buckling Gray into the van.

    The van stopped once again, this time Officer William G. Porter met up with Goodson and checked on gray. Gray asked for medical attention stating he couldn’t breathe. Porter asked Gray if he needed a medic and although Gray insisted he did, the officers allegedly placed him back on the bench and decided he did not need a medic.
    Then Porter left to assist with another arrest on West North avenue and Goodson shortly followed with Gray in the back of the police van to help transport another suspect. When they arrived at that located they Sgt. Alicia White, Goodson and Porter saw Gray was unresponsive on the floor of the back of the wagon.
    White spoke to the back of Gray’s head and was advised he needed a medic, but Mosby said she made no effort to determine his condition.
    The officer did not get Gray medical attention until they returned to the Western District station.

    Mosby said the officers are being charged with a number of counts of manslaughter, assault and misconduct. One officer will even be charged with a count of murder.
    City State’s Attorney Says Freddie Gray’s Arrest Illegal, Charges Officers « CBS Baltimore

    Those who would like to change their story may now do so.

    You also follow the latest on this story at http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...-officers.html
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-01-15 at 12:42 PM.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    UPDATE
    Did you read this crap:

    The Baltimore Police Fraternal Order of Police No. 3 issued a letter to Mosby Friday morning on behalf of the officers involved saying that the death was not the officers’ faults and they also requested a special prosecutor citing conflicts of interest with Mosby’s office.

    “Each of the officers involved is sincerely saddened by Gray’s passing. They are all committed police officers who have dedicated their careers to the Baltimore City Police Department,” the letter states, “And that has been lost in all the publicity.”
    Not the officers' fault?

    Gray was in their custody. Their negligence and disregard for his safety, security and well-being led directly to his death.

    They may not have murdered him, but if they'd treated him like a human being he'd still be alive today.

    They're "saddened" by his passing?

    No they're not.

    They're saddened they got caught killing him, but if they were capable of being "saddened" by anything they wouldn't have treated him in a manner that led directly to his death.

    Committed police officers?

    They're thugs. Common criminals. Actually, uncommon criminals who have been placed in a position of trust and authority within society and then abused that trust and authority.

    **** them.

    I hope all six of them burn.

    I hope they get to prison, and they get shackled and hogtied like they did to Gray and they get "taken for a ride" like he did.

    Gotta be a hoot being a cop in prison.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Did you read this crap:



    Not the officers' fault?

    Gray was in their custody. Their negligence and disregard for his safety, security and well-being led directly to his death.

    They may not have murdered him, but if they'd treated him like a human being he'd still be alive today.

    They're "saddened" by his passing?

    No they're not.

    They're saddened they got caught killing him, but if they were capable of being "saddened" by anything they wouldn't have treated him in a manner that led directly to his death.

    Committed police officers?

    They're thugs. Common criminals. Actually, uncommon criminals who have been placed in a position of trust and authority within society and then abused that trust and authority.

    **** them.

    I hope all six of them burn.

    I hope they get to prison, and they get shackled and hogtied like they did to Gray and they get "taken for a ride" like he did.

    Gotta be a hoot being a cop in prison.
    I'm going to try not to pass judgement on these officers until after they've had their day in court. That said, I don't think many people will buy their claim of sincerity given the fact that they arrested this young man without cause, aggressively restrained him and failed to see to his medical request/needs and as a result of their negligence, he died. It's going to be hard for some people to turn the other cheek on this one. But I can accept that they may be feeling remorseful for what they did. You just have to wonder where was their concern when it was needed most?
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm going to try not to pass judgement on these officers until after they've had their day in court.
    I hope they have a fair trial as well.

    But given what I know so far I also hope for all the other malevolent stuff I wished for.

    I would imagine that if there was any clearly exculpatory evidence available in this case it would already have been trotted out, and there's been pretty much nothing.

    These guys may get off on a technicality, or as a result of some kind of very poorly advised "if the glove don't fit, you must acquit" prosecutorial shenanigans, and if that's the case, and it comes as the result of a fair trial, I'll live with it and respect the decision of the court.

    But I really hope that doesn't happen because these cats are clearly criminals of the absolute worst sort.

    We look at child abusers as among the lowest of the low when it comes to criminals.

    Largely because the perpetrators of such abuse take advantage of a real or perceived position of authority over their victims to facilitate their crimes and then victimize those who are essentially defenseless.

    When you've got the authority of the state's legal monopoly on violence in your corner, and you're able to outnumber your victims and then impose restraints on them which prevent self defense, you've essentially done the same thing a child abuser does.

    Dirty cops are as bad a short eyes.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Did you read this crap:



    Not the officers' fault?

    Gray was in their custody. Their negligence and disregard for his safety, security and well-being led directly to his death.

    They may not have murdered him, but if they'd treated him like a human being he'd still be alive today.

    They're "saddened" by his passing?

    No they're not.

    They're saddened they got caught killing him, but if they were capable of being "saddened" by anything they wouldn't have treated him in a manner that led directly to his death.

    Committed police officers?

    They're thugs. Common criminals. Actually, uncommon criminals who have been placed in a position of trust and authority within society and then abused that trust and authority.

    **** them.

    I hope all six of them burn.

    I hope they get to prison, and they get shackled and hogtied like they did to Gray and they get "taken for a ride" like he did.

    Gotta be a hoot being a cop in prison.
    Think of how many times this happened in the past, and the cops got away with it because no one filmed them. Time to clean up these dirty police departments.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    As usual, you're wrong:
    As usual, you are wrong.
    And saying I am wrong makes you doubly wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    And that statement comes from an article on the PoliceOne website, probably the most biased (and irrationally so) pro-police website on the Internets.

    When a cop takes someone into his care and custody through detention or arrest it is the cop's responsibility to ensure that person's safety and security.

    Makes sense, right?

    I mean, if you're a reasonable, rational, unbiased person. Maybe not if you're an anti-freedom, pro-police state "conservative".

    Anyhow, you can't handcuff someone, manacle them, throw them in a metal box in the back of a moving motor vehicle, and then act surprised if they somehow get injured as a result.

    Do that, and you're negligent.

    Do that and they die, you're taking a ride for involuntary manslaughter, at a minimum.

    No soot and you can stop with the exaggerations.

    You have not refuted that slipping and falling while banging your head is not the result of his own actions. Nor could you.
    Inmates often injure their self, and that injury is not attributable to the the States D.O.C.

    Had he remained laying on the floor he would have been fine.
    He chose not to and instead was banging his head and causing a ruckus which is why the leg restraints were applied.


    In this case the suspect was supposedly not secured which was okay for the reason claimed under the previous set of rules.
    But to claim criminal activity becasue a supposed policy was not followed is absurd.

    And if it is found that there wasn't a meaningful and effective notification of the supposed new policy, the old standards will be accepted.

    The supposed new rules are no where to be found.
    Do you have a link to them?

    Here is a link to the only ones (old) I could find.

    -- Ensure medical treatment for a prisoner is obtained, when necessary, at the nearest emergency medical facility

    >The arrestee is secured with seat/restraint belts provided. This procedure should be evaluated on an individual basis so not to place oneself in any danger


    http://www.aele.org/law/2009all10/ba...-transport.pdf


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Did you read this crap:
    A good call on their part.
    She is clearly biased and has a conflict of interest.


    The rest of what you said was emotive nonsense.





    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    intentional
    [in-ten-shuh-nl]

    adjective
    1. done with intention or on purpose; intended: an intentional insult.
    2. of or relating to intention or purpose.


    ac·ci·den·tal
    ?aks?'den(t)l/
    adjective
    adjective: accidental

    1. happening by chance, unintentionally, or unexpectedly.
    2. incidental; subsidiary.

    You just made the argument that he did it intentionally. If it were accidental, that is the officer's fault for not properly securing him in the van!
    Just more deflection.
    Your reply again ignores that fact that there was no conflation.
    I spoke to injury during an intentional act as being the responsibility of the person.
    There is no conflation in that.

    Slipping and falling while banging your head still is the result of your own actions.
    You can't change that.


    But since you can't get past the fact that it can happen ... ↓

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    In the meantime, I'll entertain myself watching the apologists try to convince themselves that someone severing their own spinal cord is a believable notion, and not one borne out of brutal stupidity.
    This was you engaged in brutal stupidity.

    This guy broke his neck by ramming his head into a wall.

    He then was placed in an isolation cell, where he rammed his head into a wall and broke his neck.
    Mentally ill man who broke neck in jail alleges in suit his rights were violated - latimes


    Brutal stupidity would be not recognizing that self inflicted broken necks are not an uncommon occurrence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    you lose! Continually!

    As you have repeatedly shown, that is you.





    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    the fact that they arrested this young man without cause, aggressively restrained him and failed to see to his medical request/needs and as a result of their negligence, he died.
    Not facts. Allegations.
    Please provide the relevant information that they "had to" respond to his request.
    The old standard did not require it.
    So where is this new standard?
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Those who would like to change their story may now do so.
    The only ones who need to change their stories are those who have made false claims like you have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    An "ear" witness? Really, Excon?
    Are you unfamiliar with the term?


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    So, you're saying that what Donta Allen (the 2nd prisoner) thought he heard on the other side of a divided partition was actually what he claimed happened to Freddie Gray?
    No. I am saying it is the only evidence we have in regards to how they sounded.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You do realize that sometimes what people hear isn't exactly what truly occurred, right? Your ears more often than your eyes do play tricks on you.
    You were not there. I was not there. What you or I think of the actual sounds does not matter.
    What matters is what he as the ear witness thought of the sounds.
    And he keeps saying it sounded like he was banging his head.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    As such, it is possible that the thrashing about Donta Allen claims he heard and subsequently told homicide detectives was Freddie Gray's limb, unsecured body thrashing about inside a moving police van.
    No. You keep conveniently ignoring that it was a smooth ride.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You have no proof of that whatsoever.
    Stop with the "proof" argument. We are speaking of evidence.

    He was pretending not to be able to stand. Then he was able to and even duck into the van. That is evidence that he was faking.
    You also seem to forget the reports of him wanting his inhaler, while he did not appear to have any reported breathing difficulties. That is again evidence that he was faking.
    It is like you do not know that is what criminals do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You don't know that for sure. You're basing your assessment on Donta Allen's initial testimony which he, himself has recanted. So, how can you make such a claim when the only "ear" witness to what happened neither saw Freddie Gray banging his head against the van walls AND has changed his testimony AND admitted that he gave one story to homicide detectives and another to local police?
    1. By both his accounts, it was a smooth ride.
    2. No, he did not recant. This was already pointed out.
    3. You seem to be reading into what he said. His interview was immediate and was by the police, homicide detective(s) to be exact.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    If Freddie Gray was trying to escape, don't you think the police would have secured him once they checked on him when they picked up Donta Allen? I've already dealt with the self-inflicted injury argument. No need to rehash that one. But...
    No you really haven't dealt with the self inflicted argument.
    And again no. It was already stated that they did not secure him over concerns of Officer safety. But they did secure his feet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Again, you have no proof that Freddie Gray's injuries were self-inflicted.
    Again you are speaking in terms of "proof" instead of evidence.
    The passenger's statements are evidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Again, you're relying on faulty testimony
    No I am not. He clearly said "smooth ride".


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    and refusing to accept the possibility that a suspect left loose, unsecured in the back of a moving van with limited mobility in his legs and his hands cuffed behind his back would NOT move around as said van is in motion transiting through the city.
    You are failing to show it would happen on a smooth ride. Nor could you, not without it being a non-smooth ride.

    Another thing you are not pondering his how he hit his head on the rear portion when he was left face down with his head facing forward.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The man's not a fixed object! He's going to feel every bump and every turn. He's going to be "thrashed" around with the motion of the vehicle. If you doubt me, try being a passenger in a moving vehicle (traveling at 25 mph or more) WITHOUT A SEATBELT and hold yourself erect during a turn and see if you don't lean to either side. I doubt you can do it without grabbing hold to something. Go ahead...try it and get back to this board with your findings.
    Feeling... iLOL
    The other passenger would feel then too, and he said it was a smooth ride.
    As for me experiencing such? iLOL
    The back of pick-ups.
    The back of Deuce and a Halfs.
    The back of Five Tons.

    You clearly do not know of what you speak.
    A smooth ride is a non eventful ride and no one is thrashed around.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    ***No probable cause*** to arrest him. End of story right there.

    This is exactly the reason minority populations are outraged.

    They deserve their punishment....it was unnecessary and then they demonstrated a callous disregard for a life.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #339
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm going to try not to pass judgement on these officers until after they've had their day in court. That said, I don't think many people will buy their claim of sincerity given the fact that they arrested this young man without cause, aggressively restrained him and failed to see to his medical request/needs and as a result of their negligence, he died. It's going to be hard for some people to turn the other cheek on this one. But I can accept that they may be feeling remorseful for what they did. You just have to wonder where was their concern when it was needed most?
    I dont know what their punishment will be in the end but I am pretty sure they will not be exonerated.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    ***No probable cause*** to arrest him. End of story right there.
    Wrong.
    Presently that is an unsupportable claim.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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