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Thread: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

    EDIT: Although Freddie Gray was running prior to being apprehended by the police, it's unclear why he was stopped or why he was running in the first place.

    Batts also said it is still unclear why Gray was stopped in the first place, saying only that officers "made eye contact" with Gray and another man, and the two took off running.

    "That's part of the question we have to dig into," Batts said, "if there's more than just running. There is no law against running."
    Personal Note: I suspect he was doing something illegal or highly suspect and believed the police saw him. Figuring he was busted since he made eye contact with the bicycle police, he (and the guy he was with) fled. While I would agree that this would be sufficient for probably cause (why would you run after making eye contact with the police if something wasn't wrong), as Mr. Batts clearly stated, "There is no law against running."
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No. It means no such thing, that is nothing more than your assumption.
    His failing to be seat-belted may not have contributed to his injuries.
    If he was limp due to paralysis, there is no way he could have not been hurt during a car ride with no restraint and no way to hold himself up. If you believe someone who can't move wouldn't be hurt even on a normal car ride, then I challenge you to drive a block with a baby in your trunk.

    What's that? That would be reckless and stupid? I agree. That would be reckless and stupid. Babies have no way to keep themselves from bouncing off of surfaces. Any baby in that situation would most likely be hurt. (Psst, here's a clue bird for you: so would a person who was paralyzed, or a healthy person with his arms tied behind his back)

    And again, they may have though he was faking injury.
    Is this a reason to not buckle him in? Let's think about this with our brain meats for a second.

    Given that he WAS faking his injuries, he was still handcuffed, meaning there was no way for him support himself if the vehicle made any kind of maneuver. The police intentionally left him unbuckled, to what... teach him a lesson? Not the police's job, and unsafe to boot. Plus, you'd have to believe Baltimore police officers aren't strong enough to buckle in a person faking paralysis... think about that for a second.

    Given that he WASN'T faking his injuries, there is still no reason to not buckle him in. Either way you look at it, not buckling him in is negligence, plain and simple.

    No, there is no either about these.
    There are other possibilities, such as he purposely injured himself.
    Oh yeah, because people sever their own spines all the time! How could I have forgotten such a common fact? Especially those who recently had surgery on their spines, yeah, they love running into things intentionally.

    While I already allowed for this several posts back by saying he could have taken a header off the top bunk on purpose, it is clear by now that this isn't the case. The police would have led with that from the first minute of the first hour of the first protest.

    Wrong.
    I didn't make anything worse.
    Is that an ASSumption I see?

    A guy wanting his inhaler while obviously breathing and talking okay is an indication of faking.
    Sweet Jesus... ok, so it's pretty clear you're an NYPD cop...
    Death of Eric Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You can't make a guy sit who is forcing his body not to. That wold be brutality.
    A guy who can force his body to not sit does not have an 80% severed spine! Seriously, do you even think about what you type before you type it? If several officers who just pinned a skinny dude down while a van came for him can't get him into a buckle while his hands are cuffed behind his back, those officers are seriously weak... oh, and the guy clearly doesn't have a severed spine.

    Just raw stupidity, right there.

    Obviously you do not understand that he may have possibly been injured during his resistance and that the Police believed he was faking injury.
    He couldn't have been injured during his arrest and also able to resist being put into a seat belt. This is indisputable.


    When it was known he was injured they called for medical attention immediately.
    And when was that, exactly? Show me your source. And tell me why the Baltimore City Police Commissioner said the officers involved missed several opportunities over the course of a half hour to call for paramedics?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    If he was limp due to paralysis, there is no way he could have not been hurt during a car ride with no restraint and no way to hold himself up. If you believe someone who can't move wouldn't be hurt even on a normal car ride, then I challenge you to drive a block with a baby in your trunk.

    What's that? That would be reckless and stupid? I agree. That would be reckless and stupid. Babies have no way to keep themselves from bouncing off of surfaces. Any baby in that situation would most likely be hurt. (Psst, here's a clue bird for you: so would a person who was paralyzed, or a healthy person with his arms tied behind his back)



    Is this a reason to not buckle him in? Let's think about this with our brain meats for a second.

    Given that he WAS faking his injuries, he was still handcuffed, meaning there was no way for him support himself if the vehicle made any kind of maneuver. The police intentionally left him unbuckled, to what... teach him a lesson? Not the police's job, and unsafe to boot. Plus, you'd have to believe Baltimore police officers aren't strong enough to buckle in a person faking paralysis... think about that for a second.

    Given that he WASN'T faking his injuries, there is still no reason to not buckle him in. Either way you look at it, not buckling him in is negligence, plain and simple.



    Oh yeah, because people sever their own spines all the time! How could I have forgotten such a common fact? Especially those who recently had surgery on their spines, yeah, they love running into things intentionally.

    While I already allowed for this several posts back by saying he could have taken a header off the top bunk on purpose, it is clear by now that this isn't the case. The police would have led with that from the first minute of the first hour of the first protest.



    Is that an ASSumption I see?



    Sweet Jesus... ok, so it's pretty clear you're an NYPD cop...
    Death of Eric Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    A guy who can force his body to not sit does not have an 80% severed spine! Seriously, do you even think about what you type before you type it? If several officers who just pinned a skinny dude down while a van came for him can't get him into a buckle while his hands are cuffed behind his back, those officers are seriously weak... oh, and the guy clearly doesn't have a severed spine.

    Just raw stupidity, right there.



    He couldn't have been injured during his arrest and also able to resist being put into a seat belt. This is indisputable.




    And when was that, exactly? Show me your source. And tell me why the Baltimore City Police Commissioner said the officers involved missed several opportunities over the course of a half hour to call for paramedics?
    Besides being wrong and again making lame assumptions ... You are a day late and a dollar short.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Besides being wrong and again making lame assumptions ... You are a day late and a dollar short.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...sport-van.html
    Would that be the van the police failed to buckle him in to? You know, when his arms were pinned behind his back and he didn't even have the ability to buckle himself in? That's the van?

    It seems the police have a history of doing this to people.

    Freddie Gray not the first to come out of Baltimore police van with serious injuries - Baltimore Sun

    Relatives of Dondi Johnson Sr., who was left a paraplegic after a 2005 police van ride, won a $7.4 million verdict against police officers. A year earlier, Jeffrey Alston was awarded $39 million by a jury after he became paralyzed from the neck down as the result of a van ride. Others have also received payouts after filing lawsuits.
    .....
    Christine Abbott, a 27-year-old assistant librarian at the Johns Hopkins University, is suing city officers in federal court, alleging that she got such a ride in 2012. According to the suit, officers cuffed Abbott's hands behind her back, threw her into a police van, left her unbuckled and "maniacally drove" her to the Northern District police station, "tossing [her] around the interior of the police van."

    "They were braking really short so that I would slam against the wall, and they were taking really wide, fast turns," Abbott said in an interview that mirrored allegations in her lawsuit. "I couldn't brace myself. I was terrified."
    .....
    The most sensational case in Baltimore involved Johnson, a 43-year-old plumber who was arrested for public urination. He was handcuffed and placed in a transport van in good health. He emerged a quadriplegic.

    Before he died, he complained to his doctor that he was not buckled into his seat when the police van "made a sharp turn," sending him "face first" into the interior of the van, court records state. He was "violently thrown around the back of the vehicle as [police officers] drove in an aggressive fashion, taking turns so as to injure [Johnson] who was helplessly cuffed," the lawsuit stated.


    The fact you posted that link with a smiley face tells me you don't have the first clue what this argument is even about.

    You also just got done making a case for injury during his arrest and assumed the van ride didn't injure him or make anything worse. Jesus, how wrong you are, and how proud you seem of the fact! Is this embarrassing for you? It's got to be.
    Last edited by Gonzo Rodeo; 04-30-15 at 06:17 PM.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Would that be the van the police failed to buckle him in to? You know, when his arms were pinned behind his back and he didn't even have the ability to buckle himself in? That's the van?
    That would be the van that Gray was trying to injure himself in and succeeded.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    It seems the police have a history of doing this to people.
    Irrelevant.

    You posting that in response just tells me you don't have the first clue what this argument is even about and chose to ignore relevant info that is already known.

    Again, as you were already informed.

    Batts said another man who was in the van during the tail end of Gray's ride told investigators that Gray was "was still moving around, that he was kicking and making noises" up until the van arrived at the station. Batts said the man also said the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically."
    Freddie Gray death: Baltimore police prisoner transport under scrutiny - World - CBC News


    Your nonsensical reply didn't happen.

    Freedy ****ed himself over by pretending and then by attempting to injure himself.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    That would be the van that Gray was trying to injure himself in and succeeded.
    Making an assumption?


    Irrelevant.
    Ah, yes. So, we've got a track record of the Baltimore PD injuring people with the same kind of injuries that Gray sustained... but that's irrelevant.

    Good job, councilor. You know modern courts don't actually have jesters, right?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Making an assumption?
    No, based on the evidence.
    You seem to be forgetting that there is also an ear witness.

    He began by faking injury.
    As it is normal for suspects to bang their heads and even kick to injure their self and he was not being tossed about by the vans movement, that only leaves two possibilities, he was either trying to injure himself or was trying to escape, and the ear witness claims it sounded like he was trying injure himself.
    The fact that he did means he succeeded.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Ah, yes. So, we've got a track record of the Baltimore PD injuring people with the same kind of injuries that Gray sustained... but that's irrelevant.

    Good job, councilor.
    As usual, a lame reply.
    It is irrelevant for the reason provided.
    Evidence says there was no "nickel ride".
    Pay attention this time.
    the man also said the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically."


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    You know modern courts don't actually have jesters, right?
    Your employment history is irrelevant as well.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No, based on the evidence.
    You seem to be forgetting that there is also an ear witness.

    He began by faking injury.
    As it is normal for suspects to bang their heads and even kick to injure their self and he was not being tossed about by the vans movement, that only leaves two possibilities, he was either trying to injure himself or was trying to escape, and the ear witness claims it sounded like he was trying injure himself.
    The fact that he did means he succeeded.



    As usual, a lame reply.
    It is irrelevant for the reason provided.
    Evidence says there was no "nickel ride".
    Pay attention this time.
    the man also said the driver did not speed, make sudden stops of "drive erratically."


    Your employment history is irrelevant as well.
    Time will tell if the ridiculous notion that Gray severed his own spinal chord pans out, or if something happened during the second stop the van made where police had to "deal with Gray" (officers words, verbatim). Or perhaps something happened on the unreported stop the officers conveniently forgot to radio in (that was discovered on private CCTV).

    We'll see. In the meantime, I'll entertain myself watching the apologists try to convince themselves that someone severing their own spinal cord is a believable notion, and not one borne out of brutal stupidity. You know, in lieu of the cops who have injured other parties in the same way quite a few times in the past.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Time will tell if the ridiculous notion that Gray severed his own spinal chord pans out,.
    Ridiculous notion?
    Not.
    Did you not view the video report?

    It is not often that such leaked/sourced info is wrong.
    Law enforcement sources say Freddie Gray suffered head injury in police transport van | WJLA.com


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    or if something happened during the second stop the van made where police had to "deal with Gray" (officers words, verbatim). Or perhaps something happened on the unreported stop the officers conveniently forgot to radio in (that was discovered on private CCTV).
    Just dismiss that nonsense.
    1. The other Officers would not report that.
    It would have been the transport Officer responsible to report a stop if needed.
    2. And the relevant event took place while the other passenger was in the van, not before.
    Gray was still moving and sounded like he was trying to injure himself.
    Then when they reached their destination Gray stopped making noise. That would be when it happened.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    In the meantime, I'll entertain myself watching the apologists try to convince themselves that someone severing their own spinal cord is a believable notion, and not one borne out of brutal stupidity.
    Brutal stupidity would be not recognizing that self inflicted broken necks are a common occurrence.


    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    How about in a slip and fall in the bathroom?

    (Just a quick google found this)

    Swedish man sent home with broken neck - The Local

    A Swedish man complaining of pain in his neck after a fall in his bathroom was sent home from hospital without an x-ray only to find that he was nursing a broken neck.


    So, is it possible to be flopping about in a moving vehicle, surrounded by a metal cage, and fall in a way that breaks your neck? Who knows, but if a simple fall in a bathroom can do it, it's not impossible.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Brutal stupidity would be not recognizing that self inflicted broken necks are a common occurrence.

    ow about in a slip and fall in the bathroom?

    (Just a quick google found this)

    Swedish man sent home with broken neck - The Local

    A Swedish man complaining of pain in his neck after a fall in his bathroom was sent home from hospital without an x-ray only to find that he was nursing a broken neck.


    So, is it possible to be flopping about in a moving vehicle, surrounded by a metal cage, and fall in a way that breaks your neck? Who knows, but if a simple fall in a bathroom can do it, it's not impossible.
    Conflating a slip and fall accident with an intentionally self-inflicted fatal broken neck is brutally stupid. That is sociopathic high school jock brutally stupid.

    ...which could have been easily avoided had the officers buckled Gray in, like their department-wide policy specified just three days before. Take a wild guess why such a memo was necessary.
    Last edited by Gonzo Rodeo; 04-30-15 at 09:19 PM.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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