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Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

The posts sound to me like they are in favor of law and order and against rogue, out of control Police agencies. More USA people were killed by Police in the last 10 years than were killed in the Iraq War.

Got anything to back that up? Are you seriously alleging that over 4,500 people have been killed by police in the last 10 years?
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

All I did was point out the facts as we know them, he was able to walk and run. Cops caught him, and he couldn't, and he died.

Which in and of it self means nothing. It means something happened.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Stupid to run? Yes, you are right. But that does not excuse all these deaths nor does it mean police officers have to stop doing their job properly.

Also, this injury seems to have occurred after arrest, but the investigation is still in it's early days, so the police officers should have the luxury of innocent until proven otherwise. For all we know he fell down and hurt his neck in that manner, which would make it nothing more than an accident. The only thing you could hold the police accountable for might be not calling an ambulance/paramedics in time to prevent the death.

Well said. There are some weird rules on calling an ambulance too.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Yeah we do, blunt force trauma. And it happened between the time he was arrested and the time he got to the station.

Looks like he was severely injured before he got in the van.

FWIW, they picked up another individual in route.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Looks like he was severely injured before he got in the van.

FWIW, they picked up another individual in route.

So he could have been injured in a scuffle?

Spinal injuries are tricky tricky. You have to immobilize to prevent greater injury. If something goes unnoticed...it could be bad.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Stupid to run? Yes, you are right. But that does not excuse all these deaths nor does it mean police officers have to stop doing their job properly.

Also, this injury seems to have occurred after arrest, but the investigation is still in it's early days, so the police officers should have the luxury of innocent until proven otherwise. For all we know he fell down and hurt his neck in that manner, which would make it nothing more than an accident. The only thing you could hold the police accountable for might be not calling an ambulance/paramedics in time to prevent the death.

He looked pretty immobile and was screaming as they put him in the van. I can't imagine he caused much of a ruckus on the way to jail.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

So he could have been injured in a scuffle?

Spinal injuries are tricky tricky. You have to immobilize to prevent greater injury. If something goes unnoticed...it could be bad.

Getting tackled on pavement by four cops can cause some bad injuries.

I totally agree with your thoughts on spinal injuries.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

So he could have been injured in a scuffle?

Spinal injuries are tricky tricky. You have to immobilize to prevent greater injury. If something goes unnoticed...it could be bad.

It says here that he was arrested with incidence.

Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Maybe the other prisoner caused the injuries? IIRC cops don't ride in the back of the van.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

In the video of the punk's arrest he was in pain and couldn't use his legs so he may have been hurt at that time or already hurt before he was arrested. I guess we will learn what happened to this vine dem citizen.. Why do liberals love these worthless punks so much??

Maybe some folk believe in limited and constrained government. And being suspected of a crime cannot be considered a death sentence.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Got anything to back that up? Are you seriously alleging that over 4,500 people have been killed by police in the last 10 years?

Apparently.

How many police shootings a year? No one knows - The Washington Post

Bottom line is there are no good stats because no one is required to report police shootings. But the estimates range from about 400/year (which they know is low because it excludes a bunch of police departments) to over 1,000/year. Here's one effort to count fatal shootings:

In 2011, he scoured the Internet several times a day every day, compiling a database of every officer-involved shooting he could find. Ultimately, he tracked 1,146 shootings by police officers, 607 of them fatal shootings.

Here's another effort, more recent - Another (Much Higher) Count Of Homicides By Police | FiveThirtyEight

But one recent effort stood out for its apparent comprehensiveness: The Killed By Police Facebook page, which aggregates links to news articles on police-related killings and keeps a running tally on the number of victims. The creator of the page does not seek to determine whether police killings are justifiable; each post “merely documents the occurrence of a death.” He told FiveThirtyEight that he was an instructor on nonviolent physical-intervention techniques and that he prefers to remain anonymous.

Killed by Police had listed more than 1,450 deaths caused by law-enforcement officers since its launch, on May 1, 2013, through Sunday. That works out to about three per day, or 1,100 a year.

That effort compiles all deaths, and includes a few cases of officers acting outside their duties - e.g. drunk driving after work, deadly crash.

BTW, here's the link for 2015. Killed By Police - 2015 Total through April 22 is 356.
 
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Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

He was running around before the rest.

Afterwards...not so much.

Pretty easy to figure out.

That's not proof of anything other than your desire to want the situation to be the fault of police so that you can continue to tie their hands.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

He looked pretty immobile and was screaming as they put him in the van. I can't imagine he caused much of a ruckus on the way to jail.

Well, he started running, was arrested and transported and now he is dead. It must have happened between when he started running and was in the hands of medical professionals. When and how is what a police investigation hopefully will find out.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

But it is a dumb thing to do knowing how the police sometimes reacts.

Of course. The question is, why once restrained an in custody, why did the man end up with a nearly severed spine?
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

What the hell is wrong with you dude? Having to prove to you that there is widespread abuse in American police forces across the country is like having to prove to you that the earth isn't flat. Now, since your partisan mind can't handle anything from a liberal source, I'll give you what you like.

Seven Reasons Police Brutality Is Systemic, Not Anecdotal | The American Conservative

Good clip Monte, but first, just a funny side note. You realize that you just validated the claim about you I made that you responded to right?

Now, as to the story from the American Conservative....I suspect you failed to read this part...I'll bold it for you...

"These stories are a small selection of recent police brutality reports, as police misconduct has become a fixture of the news cycle.

But the plural of anecdote is not data, and the media is inevitably drawn toward tales of conflict. Despite the increasing frequency with which we hear of misbehaving cops, many Americans maintain a default respect for the man in uniform. As an NYPD assistant chief put it, “We don’t want a few bad apples or a few rogue cops damaging” the police’s good name."

Now I know the article goes on to dispute what NYPD's assistant chief says, and I agree that departments that have problems should absolutely go forward to solve these problems, but to throw up your hands and say, or imply that ALL cops, (not that you did that) are corrupt is just silly, and leads to a rational person saying what do you want, no police?
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Fantastic and in depth response. Really something to think about here.



I'm not the judge in this case. I haven't discarded anything (another strawman) I'm allowed to speculate. Furthermore there are lots of cases where cops get off, where, if they had been held to the same standard as the general public they would have been prosecuted. Acquitting a person for murder may make him innocent in the eyes of the law, but it does not mean they are actually innocent.

Save the personal ad hom's buddy...They're quite boring.

It's not an ad hominem if it's true. Sorry.

And Opinions are like assholes, yours ain't roses, sorry.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

I grew up in Medford Mass right across the river from South Boston (southie), Dorchester and Fall river, So I've seen it.

Ah, so, imagine these areas with no police....wouldn't it be wonderful?
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Of course. The question is, why once restrained an in custody, why did the man end up with a nearly severed spine?

And for that we first need to await the results of the investigation and until they, all parties are innocent until that investigation proves otherwise IMHO.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Apparently.

How many police shootings a year? No one knows - The Washington Post

Bottom line is there are no good stats because no one is required to report police shootings. But the estimates range from about 400/year (which they know is low because it excludes a bunch of police departments) to over 1,000/year. Here's one effort to count fatal shootings:



Here's another effort, more recent - Another (Much Higher) Count Of Homicides By Police | FiveThirtyEight



That effort compiles all deaths, and includes a few cases of officers acting outside their duties - e.g. drunk driving after work, deadly crash.

BTW, here's the link for 2015. Killed By Police - 2015 Total through April 22 is 356.

So how does that even come close to beefheart's claim of 4500?
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Good clip Monte, but first, just a funny side note. You realize that you just validated the claim about you I made that you responded to right?

Now, as to the story from the American Conservative....I suspect you failed to read this part...I'll bold it for you...

"These stories are a small selection of recent police brutality reports, as police misconduct has become a fixture of the news cycle.

But the plural of anecdote is not data, and the media is inevitably drawn toward tales of conflict. Despite the increasing frequency with which we hear of misbehaving cops, many Americans maintain a default respect for the man in uniform. As an NYPD assistant chief put it, “We don’t want a few bad apples or a few rogue cops damaging” the police’s good name."

Now I know the article goes on to dispute what NYPD's assistant chief says, and I agree that departments that have problems should absolutely go forward to solve these problems, but to throw up your hands and say, or imply that ALL cops, (not that you did that) are corrupt is just silly, and leads to a rational person saying what do you want, no police?

Who pray-tell has thrown up their hands and said that all cops are bad. Those of us complaining about corruption, abuse and excess want the corruption, abuse and excess expunged from the countries police forces, not the countries police forces expunged. Try to follow along.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Who pray-tell has thrown up their hands and said that all cops are bad. Those of us complaining about corruption, abuse and excess want the corruption, abuse and excess expunged from the countries police forces, not the countries police forces expunged. Try to follow along.

Oh, I am following, but so far all you have are bumper sticker responses...Can you tell us how you want this supposed ingrained corruption expunged?

And don't just go back to the article you gave me, that's lazy, give me your solutions.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

So how does that even come close to beefheart's claim of 4500?

Here's the post I responded to: "Got anything to back that up? Are you seriously alleging that over 4,500 people have been killed by police in the last 10 years?"

Math tells me that 400/year x 10 years = 4,000 in 10 years. This is the absolute minimum and known to undercount police deadly shootings.

More reasonable estimates range from about 600-1,000 deadly shootings per year. Over 10 years, the total death toll FAR exceeds 4,500, which was the question posed and answered by me.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

It says here that he was arrested with incidence.

Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Maybe the other prisoner caused the injuries? IIRC cops don't ride in the back of the van.

That is a fact often overlooked by people. Hell most may not know unless they serve on a jury.

Had a prisoner get shanked to death a while back because of something. The prisoner stabbed the guy like 40 times because the guards couldn't open the back and stop it. They aren't allowed to stop in transit and they aren't allowed in the back.

Someone's head probably rolled from that. Stupid policy. But a logical one too.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Here's the post I responded to: "Got anything to back that up? Are you seriously alleging that over 4,500 people have been killed by police in the last 10 years?"

Math tells me that 400/year x 10 years = 4,000 in 10 years. This is the absolute minimum and known to undercount police deadly shootings.

More reasonable estimates range from about 600-1,000 deadly shootings per year. Over 10 years, the total death toll FAR exceeds 4,500, which was the question posed and answered by me.

Ok, but, and I may be wrong, but the original quote from beefheart was claiming that more people were killed last year by cops than in the war in Iraq...I could be wrong...But even if that is the case, surely we have multiples of people here in America than was involved in the war, so the stats would not be a fair comparison.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

Ok, but, and I may be wrong, but the original quote from beefheart was claiming that more people were killed last year by cops than in the war in Iraq...I could be wrong...But even if that is the case, surely we have multiples of people here in America than was involved in the war, so the stats would not be a fair comparison.

Actually, the original claim was, "More USA people were killed by Police in the last 10 years than were killed in the Iraq War." And that's true.

And the relevant point to me is we're immune as a country to about 3 deadly police shootings every day. The vast majority are justified, but the numbers are a pretty good indication about the militarization of the police in this country. And the numbers are steady, despite decreases in underlying crime that have been going on for decades.
 
Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

I am sensing a pattern in your posts....What do you have against law and order?


What if I told you that you can be against police brutality and also be for law and order? The two are not mutually exclusive entities of each other.

I know, it's crazy right?
 
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