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Thread: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

  1. #211
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, but I'm obviously not arguing jail is inappropriate for a person accused of ANY crime. Violent crimes merit jail terms. What doesn't in my view are the huge numbers in jail, many for long sentences for non-violent, mostly drug related crimes. This is your police state on the War on Drugs:

    Attachment 67183518
    You're talking to an ex-druggie so, I completely agree with your sentiments regard non-violent offenders.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    ... grand juries are *supposed* to be favorable to cops. As are district attorneys. And judges. And mayors.
    Says who?
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Says who?


    Let me google that for you

    Like 20 recent articles about how it is almost impossible to get a grand jury to indict a cop for a crime.

    But I guess I'll supplement that with an explanation.

    Mayors, judges, and prosecutors are generally ambitious career orientated people that want legacies and and promotions. The mayor wants to be governor, the judge wants to be chief justice, and the prosecutor wants to be a the district attorney. All of them depending on a working relationship with the police to make ends meet, in particular to maintain the all important illusion that everything is working as intended. Even private law firms rely on the police to develop and argue their cases; police, due to the nature of their work, monopolize a lot of the resources and currencies of legal and political power at the municipal, state, and even national level.

    While ostensibly under most legal systems police aren't really allowed to show favoritism in their relations with public figures, in reality the scale of the work that needs to be done always exceeds the amount of available man power and resources, meaning the police as both organizations and individuals enjoy a certain amount of control over how much effort they are willingness to invest into a particular legal or criminal matter. And the amount of bureaucracy and legal knowledge and right at the disposal of a police department and their union always exceeds the ability of any individual figure to hold police accountable for lack of investment or cooperation in Random Legal Matter/Crime Exhibit A. The mayor doesn't really have the power to just fire a public official like a police officer for being uncooperative or under invested in matters that affect the mayor; mayors have elections, police have unions, so its not hard to predict which one of them is going to survive past a spike in unpopularity due to an erosion of civil stability and an increase in crime.

    It's not difficult to predict the results of such a climate.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 04-23-15 at 05:20 PM.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post


    Let me google that for you

    Like 20 recent articles about how it is almost impossible to get a grand jury to indict a cop for a crime.

    But I guess I'll supplement that with an explanation.

    Mayors, judges, and prosecutors are generally ambitious career orientated people that want legacies and and promotions. The mayor wants to be governor, the judge wants to be chief justice, and the prosecutor wants to be a the district attorney. All of them depending on a working relationship with the police to make ends meet, in particular to maintain the all important illusion that everything is working as intended. Even private law firms rely on the police to develop and argue their cases; police, due to the nature of their work, monopolize a lot of the resources and currencies of legal and political power at the municipal, state, and even national level.

    While ostensibly under most legal systems police aren't really allowed to show favoritism in their relations with public figures, in reality the scale of the work that needs to be done always exceeds the amount of available man power and resources, meaning the police as both organizations and individuals enjoy a certain amount of control over how much effort they are willingness to invest into a particular legal or criminal matter. And the amount of bureaucracy and legal knowledge and right at the disposal of a police department and their union always exceeds the ability of any individual figure to hold police accountable for lack of investment or cooperation in Random Legal Matter/Crime Exhibit A. The mayor doesn't really have the power to just fire a public official like a police officer for being uncooperative or under invested in matters that affect the mayor; mayors have elections, police have unions, so its not hard to predict which one of them is going to survive past a spike in unpopularity due to an erosion of civil stability and an increase in crime.

    It's not difficult to predict the results of such a climate.
    That really wasn't what I asked now was it? You said *supposed to* didn't you? Hence my reply.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    That really wasn't what I asked now was it? You said *supposed to* didn't you? Hence my reply.
    ... my explanation does answer your question, but I'll be more specific.

    To a large extent the entire reason why the Grand Jury system has been maintained by politicians at a political level is because it gives local political power brokers (through their relationships with the defense and prosecution) an opportunity to manipulate criminal charges, a very useful feature in a government with as high stakes political rivalries and tendencies toward gridlock. In Anglo countries where democracy is less challenged, the Grand Jury system has been dismantled.

    Generally speaking, two guys who shot a guy wielding a screw driver aren't going to get out of it without some incriminating testimony coming to light. Even if the situation or evidence is enough in their favor to beat the manslaughter/murder charge, doubts about their competence will be raised in public for a prolonged period of time -- watch dog groups that are active in local politics will gain a lot of ammunition that can be used against pretty much anyone who has a working relationship with the police. Although these dramas aren't always viewable or comprehensible to the general public, their influence is real.

    A Grand Jury trial basically skips all of that. No criminal charge means more privacy rights for the non-accused and all other participants. Prosecutors can soft ball their litigation without being scrutinized for it by the general public.

    In practical terms, a grand jury is a legal gray zone where you can get charges dismissed for any platitude on the book.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 04-23-15 at 06:06 PM.
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  6. #216
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Moderator's Warning:
    Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]Ok folks, lets get back on topic. This thread is not about doing X type of crime shouldn't get X type of punishment or anything else. This is about a man who had major spinal injury while in police custody. Stick to that or get booted. If you want to talk about that other stuff then take it to another thread.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    Look I get that there is a higher incidence of fatal shootings of black men, but I don't subscribe to that sort of sensationalism. I think there are a lot of dynamics that go into the reasons behind the high incidence of shootings of black men and not all of those reasons are insidious.


    Maybe not all, of course, but you have to admit that it dam well looks insidious!
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Of course people are terrified by the police and run out of fear. They know they cannot trust the police not to beat or kill them. Look at the guy that stole the horse. When the cops caught him, 10 of them beat the crap out of him.


    ....and that was after he threw himself on the ground in surrender.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Blemonds View Post
    Makes you wonder why black men run under those circumstances. Oh wait, maybe it's those outstanding warrants and criminal records


    Having an outstanding warrant or a criminal record does not justify a death sentence, or do you think it does?
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I see them splatter all over the screen as you do. I also see the FBI stats that show how rare it actually is.


    Excuse me, but my understanding is that their are no reliable stats on civilian shootings by police.
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