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Thread: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury[W:216]

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    We house many foreign nationals in our prisons
    The numbers don't include ICE detentions.

    Or juvenile detentions, or facilities operated by the Marshall service, the military, or on reservations.

    You can try all day long and your efforts won't polish that turd even a little bit.

    More fun stats from this link:

    According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2011 – about 0.94% of adults in the U.S. resident population.[8] Additionally, 4,814,200 adults at year-end 2011 were on probation or on parole.[12] In total, 6,977,700 adults were under correctional supervision (probation, parole, jail, or prison) in 2011 – about 2.9% of adults in the U.S. resident population.[12]

    In addition, there were 70,792 juveniles in juvenile detention in 2010.[13]
    Last edited by JasperL; 04-23-15 at 11:58 AM.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The numbers don't include ICE detentions.

    Or juvenile detentions, or facilities operated by the Marshall service, the military, or on reservations.

    You can try all day long and your efforts won't polish that turd even a little bit.

    More fun stats from this link:
    Would you rather they work in hard labor camps or be executed? I personally know people who can't keep their nose clean and have been in trouble multiple times

    Apparently what ever punishment they received can't fix stupid.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    EXACTLY! So if you RUN...your chance of injury goes up. Do you expect the police NOT to put someone down who runs? It isn't tag. My entire point here is that injury during the scuffle cannot be ruled out AND that would be justified.

    There is not enough evidence released to the public for us to know who is at fault.
    The chance of you injuring yourself should go up, the chance of law enforcement injuring or killing you should stay the same.
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Yes, someone begging for medical attention should get medical attention. This person is dead. I guess in your world view that's the breaks. And you wonder why the community doesn't respect the police..... Incredible.
    1) You were not there. Nor do you know the circumstances. There is also a jail nurse usually. If he is in transit...and the injuries were minor in appearance..."begging" for medical attention isn't really important.

    Add in that people frequently fake injuries...you are asking police to spend more time because every suspect is going to demand medical attention upon being arrested because they don't want to go to jail.

    2) You have no ****ing clue what my position is. Don't pretend too. My position is that justice must be served. And I refuse to allow moron arm chair quarterbacks assign guilt before those morons have all the evidence.

    The FACT is he was in their custody, they ignored his pleas for medical assistance and he's dead.
    No.

    Fact 1) He was in custody
    2) He requested medical assistance
    3) He died.

    That is the only evidence you have. You are assigning blame to one group before you have all the facts. Multiple conclusions can be drawn from this data. You just want to ignore it because it is all about trashing police. Not Justice.
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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    The chance of you injuring yourself should go up, the chance of law enforcement injuring or killing you should stay the same.
    No. Because you can be tackled and so on. Any time the use of force spectrum includes hands on like that...your RISK should go up. You can't exchange expect 0 injuries from a suspect being tackled. You ought to know that. Please tell me you aren't trying to skew reality to support a specific conclusion.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Would you rather they work in hard labor camps or be executed? I personally know people who can't keep their nose clean and have been in trouble multiple times
    Holy straw man, Batman!!

    Sure, we all know people like that. The question is what we accomplish by making felons out of maybe 10% of the population, the vast majority for non-violent crimes, and the vast majority of those drug offenses. Seems like there might be better options for our money than spending perhaps $30,000 a head per year in jail.

    And somehow the entire rest of the industrialized world maintains social stability and order with 1/5th or less the number of people in jails...

    Apparently what ever punishment they received can't fix stupid.
    It's a mystery why you said you had a problem with BS arrests. Clearly that's not the case.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    1) You were not there. Nor do you know the circumstances. There is also a jail nurse usually. If he is in transit...and the injuries were minor in appearance..."begging" for medical attention isn't really important.

    Add in that people frequently fake injuries...you are asking police to spend more time because every suspect is going to demand medical attention upon being arrested because they don't want to go to jail.
    I'm not sure what the appropriate standard should be if you're OK with ignoring pleas for medical attention.

    2) You have no ****ing clue what my position is. Don't pretend too. My position is that justice must be served. And I refuse to allow moron arm chair quarterbacks assign guilt before those morons have all the evidence.
    Well, your position is the guy pleaded for medical care, was ignored and died, and you don't see any problem with his treatment during custody because at other times prisoners fake medical issues.

    And this 'moron' knows this guy suffered a fractured spinal cord, was denied medical care until he fell into a coma, it still took a half hour for them to call the ambulance, and he died, and all six that dealt with him are suspended. There seems to be a serious problem at some point in the process. And it's too bad but when the police take physical custody of someone for a minor or major crime, they become responsible for the care of that individual. He no longer had options - the police took his options away. It's reasonable to hold them responsible and accountable for deaths that occur at that point.

    Fact 1) He was in custody
    2) He [repeatedly] requested medical assistance [which was repeatedly denied until he fell into a coma]
    3) He died.

    That is the only evidence you have. You are assigning blame to one group before you have all the facts. Multiple conclusions can be drawn from this data. You just want to ignore it because it is all about trashing police. Not Justice.
    I added some pertinent facts in []'s.

    It's not about trashing "police" but about the police actions in this case. There is a substantial difference.
    Last edited by JasperL; 04-23-15 at 12:45 PM.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm not sure what the appropriate standard should be if you're OK with ignoring pleas for medical attention.
    He should be looked over at the jail unless there is an obvious medical condition that is visible upon arrest.

    Well, your position
    I have not stated a position. The rest of what you say will be a strawman. I am asking you to please not try to assume my position.

    is the guy pleaded for medical care, was ignored and died, and you don't see any problem with his treatment during custody because at other times prisoners fake medical issues
    That is a potential conclusion.. Not the only one.


    And this 'moron' knows this guy suffered a fractured spinal cord, was denied medical care until he fell into a coma, it still took a half hour for them to call the ambulance, and he died, and all six that dealt with him are suspended.
    PAID leave. That is indicative of nothing. They are reviewing the case. You are drawing a conclusion from circumstantial evidence.

    There seems to be a serious problem at some point in the process. And it's too bad but when the police take physical custody of someone for a minor or major crime, they become responsible for the care of that individual. He no longer had options - the police took his options away. It's reasonable to hold them responsible and accountable for deaths that occur at that point.
    I don't disagree. BUT...and this is a HUGE but...was there reason to suspect a spinal injury? Was he moving? Complaining of a headache? Confusion? There are clear signs of spinal injuries. Anyone with first aid knowledge knows this.

    You are trying to make a criminal case of what is more likely a civil case. Additionally you are ignoring some very reasonable and logical conclusions that can be drawn from the only available evidence.

    It's not about trashing "police" but about the police actions in this case. There is a substantial difference.
    The "police actions" could have been reasonable. There is not enough evidence to draw any solid conclusion at this point. Any claim otherwise is a lie.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not at all, but it just seems that people have bi passed that in favor of blaming the police without having all the facts...I mean, really? There are people in here advocating just letting the perp go if they run....Is that really conducive to getting in front of a court, or jury?
    Let him go? Sure, if he or she isnt an immediate danger to the public and you know where to find him or her. Like the man in SC shot in the back. The cop had his car and his address. The man want not a violent offender, he struggled to get away and ran.

    Otherwise you chase them and restrain them like you have been trained. Too scared or dont want to risk injury? Wait for your buddies, get more training, or get another job.

    It depends on the circumstances but SCOTUS and other courts have ruled on the standards for shooting a fleeing suspect. Cops are bound by that. I would give them the benefit of the doubt in many situations when we dont know the details but some cases are pretty clear cut that it was abuse of authority, and even murder.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Baltimore on edge after arrestee's fatal spine injury

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Your best bet is just give up when police officers want to arrest you, if you tire them out with a long chase and multiple officers are needed you risk a beat down, there shouldn't be a beat down but you risk it anyway if you do things that make that more likely to happen (resisting, leading them on a foot chase, trying to hit officers, etc.).

    Better to not trust and be arrested than resist arrest and get punished twice (once by the cops who beat you and once by the judge who orders you to pay for the removal of your own blood from their uniforms and then gives you extra months/years for resisting arrest).
    Of course. It's stupid to resist arrest, you are going to lose 99.9% of the time. You prove nothing by resisting....the cops dont give a crap or they wouldnt have arrested you in the first place. Sure they can be wrong but the place to prove it is at the police station, hopefully, or later in court. And report every single bit of abuse and unnecessary force. The more intelligent and articulate you are about it, the more legitimacy your claim will have, as will a clean record.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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