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Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

j-mac said:
Again not condoning the actions of the Marshall, but, from a story yesterday about the incident:

"In the video, Paez is shown standing on the sidewalk aiming a cellphone toward two men standing a short distance away, wearing black shirts with tactical vests reading “Police” across the back. As the men stand with their backs to the woman, she can be heard saying “You are making me feel unsafe, and I have a right to be here” and “You need to stay away from me, I don’t feel safe with you closer to me,” among other statements."

Now, as a reasonable person Ditto, you know it's probably not the smartest thing to do to be so close that you can taunt the police carrying out an operation like that, then continue to film...We also don't know what the "other statements" that the reporter here decided to leave out of his story....With that said...

"The U.S. Marshals Service is aware of video footage of an incident that took place Sunday in Los Angeles County involving a Deputy U.S. Marshal. The agency is currently reviewing the incident,” officials said in a statement.

“There is no situation in which an officer can intentionally grab and destroy a camera being used to lawfully record law enforcement,” said Hector Villagra, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California. “The officer’s conduct is a blatant and deliberate violation of the Constitution and his duties as an officer to abide by the law.”

With smartphones everywhere, police on notice they may be caught on camera - LA Times

So, not only is the Marshall service looking at it, but so is the ACLU...My guess is this will get resolved.
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As well it should.
 
Hatuey said:
That's cool that you find an application that helps any citizen report a violation of their civil rights as 'funny'. Very authori-chic.
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Whatever...:shrug:

Any thoughts on the thread?
 
cpwill said:
Your complaint is that many police officers are coming to view the populace as an "other", as someone who see's them as an enemy, and thus reacts to them in overly-militarized ways. But that isn't happening everywhere, now, is it? It's mostly happening where the local populace see's the police as the enemy.
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Nearly every police force in a town greater than about 50,000 has a SWAT team, and they're used to conduct 10s of thousands of raids per year on what are mostly not dangerous targets. Here's one discussion of them: Rise of the Warrior Cop - WSJ

I don't care what you choose to call it, the lessons are solid and they deserve to be applied. In many ways, in fact, much of what we fed into COIN we got from successful policing lessons, such as the Broken Windows campaign in New York.
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The only problem with the Broken Windows campaign is crime dropped in areas where they didn't use those tactics, so there's very little actual evidence other than the results in one city that the method actually works to reduce serious crime. Perhaps it's desirable on its own merits - cleaning up petty crime can be its own reward - but almost none that it affects more serious crimes.

The best evidence is the overall crime rate reductions are related to getting lead out of gasoline and paint because the results are replicated across many cities, states, and countries, otherwise with very little to tie them together except observed and substantial decreases in the rate of crime that follow a predictable number of years after lead was removed from gasoline.
 
That is mainstream news??!! My dog pissed on my neighbors leg, wanna se a video?
 
j-mac said:
Whatever...:shrug:

Any thoughts on the thread?
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Yep, the officers were wrong to break the woman's cellphone and they clearly violated her rights. You want to defend that? Or you want to keep crying about how hard their jobs are?
 
rhinefire said:
That is mainstream news??!! My dog pissed on my neighbors leg, wanna se a video?
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Celebrity gossip makes mainstream news. This story at least involves police engaged in misconduct, which if YOU were on the receiving end would be a big deal to you. That you don't care because it happened to someone else is your own problem.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Gee.....I had this conversation Monday with a veteran VPD.

Respect. It is key. This force is very good, polite, respectful of their 'clients' usually no matter what. They make mistakes. In the old days, they would all band together and try to protect their buddy.

Now, since the Robert Dziekanski murder by RCMP, police here realize one or two ass holes cost them their respect. During the cover up and trial cops in this province could not do their jobs, people flocked to any call out, cameras rolling to catch them tasering someone to death. Writing a speeding ticket became a trip to Danta's inferno as cops had to try to write it out while listening to a sting of vindictives along the lines of "hurry up killer, you're late for another muder"..all cops, not just RCMP.

This was a case of assault. It happens. Take the cop, charge him, fine him and then send him for some training that explains that video of what cops are doing clears them more often than the other way around. And the maladjusted prick might also learn that anymore, everyone is a camera and the more you try to destroy the evidence of your wrongdoing the more videos of you doing there will be.

When you get away from the secret blue shield, you actually get very good policing.

For the record I have been arrested six times, for as a peace demonstrator and two as a journalist in what they tried to say was the wrong place. Each time in the US I came away with a complete disgust and disrespect for American law enforcement.
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Good afternoon F&L - you have a different perspective, as do others, and I respect that.
 
j-mac said:
There you go, and I would even back assault charges on the Marshall if indeed there was no prior warning to get back from police....Lord knows if cops arrest you and they hurt their little pinky nail doing so they charge you with assault on a LEO....So, yeah, I'll concede that maybe charges should be filed, but if the woman doesn't do that, then NOTHING will happen, and NO crime is reported here.
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But I do not want the cop to be fined, just for him to pay for the damages (or the police force). He also does not have to be fired, just reprimanded and warned not to do it again.

And mostly injuries sustained by arrested individuals are totally down to their own actions but sometimes officers go way to far and go beyond the reasonable violence needed for a safe arrest, that alone should be open for lawsuits. Breaking a finger because you struggled so hard that you broke it due to your own struggling then sorry, no lawsuit allowed against the police officer.

Now if that officer broke your finger after you were in cuffs then yes, that would be a case in which a lawsuit against that officer should be filed.

It all has to do with reasonable behavior. The behavior of the officer in this video might have been understandable (based on the stress officer might go through) but what this officer did was not right IMHO and that should mean paying for the damages and a warning/suspension for a few days at most.
 
Blemonds said:
The reports are that the woman had exchanged words with the officers present. As of yet, we don't know what was said so we can't be certain there was no warning
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Even if there was a warning, I am not sure the police is allowed to force someone to not video what happens on the street. And if it was, they should have arrested her and taken her camera as evidence, what the officer did here was uncalled for and I would assume also not legal.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Good afternoon F&L - you have a different perspective, as do others, and I respect that.
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You will like this, walking with two cops I know at the pot fair Monday, a young man looks at them and says "Hi, sir" and salutes. I found it rude and unnecessary so said "see ya" and peeled off on the kid. Had a brief talk and told him about some of the things I have seen and asked "if an armed group raided us right now for all the $ and dope [in the hundreds of thousands] whose lives would be on the line?"

It takes knowing what cops really do, not the weekly "who ya gonna call" bull**** on TV. People need to know that those uniforms mean safety and protection, are not a threat. They need to know that the most serious threat to a street cop is no where near being shot, but seriously injured by a "disturbed individual" off his meds and thinking he's the new messiah come the reap souls. They need to know just how many times a day they get called to pick an addict out of the gutter, or come to the aid of a mental health patient addled and confused and find some safety for them and somehow manage to keep relatively normal lives. Let's face it, the things cops and I had in common, was being mis-understood and hated, and the fact that when either of us showed up unexpectedly you knew your were going to have a bad day or many.

the kid and I had a great chat, he was stoned as hell and I figure he went off to enlist.

What was really the greatest treat was how my VPD interacted with the crowd, many agreeing that the **** should be legal.
 
Ikari said:
Well he should be fired.
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Fired? He had a firearm. Stole something that was capturing evidence. And stole. If i had a gun and stole someones cellphone, then destroyed it. Id be in prison. Imagine what the same cop is willing to do, late at night when he catches someone he has disdain for in an alleyway and there is zero witnesses. These are the cops that shoot people because they know noone is watching. If I was a judge id want this cop doing at least 5 years in prison for misusing his position and tarnishing the image of cops who require public trust.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Fired? He had a firearm. Stole something that was capturing evidence. And stole. If i had a gun and stole someones cellphone, then destroyed it. Id be in prison. Imagine what the same cop is willing to do, late at night when he catches someone he has disdain for in an alleyway and there is zero witnesses. These are the cops that shoot people because they know noone is watching. If I was a judge id want this cop doing at least 5 years in prison for misusing his position and tarnishing the image of cops who require public trust.
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That's part of the problem. Cops have operated above the law for quite some time, and while there are many many good cops, there is very little done to actually punish bad cops. And cop that protects a bad cop is not a good cop and we need only good cops.

We'll see where this goes, but likely nothing will come of it because we do not punish our police when they exercise gross force against innocent people.
 
Fearandloathing said:
You will like this, walking with two cops I know at the pot fair Monday, a young man looks at them and says "Hi, sir" and salutes. I found it rude and unnecessary so said "see ya" and peeled off on the kid. Had a brief talk and told him about some of the things I have seen and asked "if an armed group raided us right now for all the $ and dope [in the hundreds of thousands] whose lives would be on the line?"

It takes knowing what cops really do, not the weekly "who ya gonna call" bull**** on TV. People need to know that those uniforms mean safety and protection, are not a threat. They need to know that the most serious threat to a street cop is no where near being shot, but seriously injured by a "disturbed individual" off his meds and thinking he's the new messiah come the reap souls. They need to know just how many times a day they get called to pick an addict out of the gutter, or come to the aid of a mental health patient addled and confused and find some safety for them and somehow manage to keep relatively normal lives. Let's face it, the things cops and I had in common, was being mis-understood and hated, and the fact that when either of us showed up unexpectedly you knew your were going to have a bad day or many.

the kid and I had a great chat, he was stoned as hell and I figure he went off to enlist.

What was really the greatest treat was how my VPD interacted with the crowd, many agreeing that the **** should be legal.
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Canadian cops are not American cops.
 
reinoe said:
Canadian cops are not American cops.
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No and Vancouver cops are not Canadian cops, necessarily but one most respected by the people they serve. I believe our chief, Jimmy Chew, is breaking new ground in community policing.

The result being we are a port city with about the lowest crime rate in the world.
 
j-mac said:
Ok, I give you that...So reprimand the cop...Does this really need an entire thread other than to continue the smear of police today?
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Why this is an issue:
1. For discussion purposes
2. So that the next time a cop considers doing something similar they realize that it will have serious consequences.

I don't know about the cop's motive, but smashing a phone or camera appears to be an attempt to destroy evidence, most likely evidence of he cop's misconduct. It also may show an inability to control his anger. I would probably suspend him without pay for a couple of months unless there was some significant evidence that justifies his behavior.
 
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cpwill said:
Yup. Having performed that task a couple of times, I can say that when you risk yourself to protect a populace that you increasingly feel chooses to view the law (and you, as its avatar) as the enemy, rather than the criminals, it's pretty crappy. A lot of the anti-coppers depersonalize the middle class dude with a tough job into some kind of hydra-monster "The State", and confuse childish rantings against the police officer with striking some kind of brave individualistic pose against the former.
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You will always have people who have bad feelings about authority figures.

But actions like Beardo took are not fueling the fire, they are pouring napalm on it.
 
Fearandloathing said:
You will like this, walking with two cops I know at the pot fair Monday, a young man looks at them and says "Hi, sir" and salutes. I found it rude and unnecessary so said "see ya" and peeled off on the kid. Had a brief talk and told him about some of the things I have seen and asked "if an armed group raided us right now for all the $ and dope [in the hundreds of thousands] whose lives would be on the line?"

It takes knowing what cops really do, not the weekly "who ya gonna call" bull**** on TV. People need to know that those uniforms mean safety and protection, are not a threat. They need to know that the most serious threat to a street cop is no where near being shot, but seriously injured by a "disturbed individual" off his meds and thinking he's the new messiah come the reap souls. They need to know just how many times a day they get called to pick an addict out of the gutter, or come to the aid of a mental health patient addled and confused and find some safety for them and somehow manage to keep relatively normal lives. Let's face it, the things cops and I had in common, was being mis-understood and hated, and the fact that when either of us showed up unexpectedly you knew your were going to have a bad day or many.

the kid and I had a great chat, he was stoned as hell and I figure he went off to enlist.

What was really the greatest treat was how my VPD interacted with the crowd, many agreeing that the **** should be legal.
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*sigh* lets correct the record.


in 2013 there were 14,556 assaults on police officers that resulted in injury. there are 900,000 police officers. It's a safe job they chose to do.
 
csbrown28 said:
The logical fallacy you've committed is called "Appeal the the Extreme"

Description: Erroneously attempting to make a reasonable argument into an absurd one, by taking the argument to the extremes.
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Well! If all you're going to do is point out fallacies then we MIGHT as well just NOT debate at all!!!

SO THERE!
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
*sigh* lets correct the record.


in 2013 there were 14,556 assaults on police officers that resulted in injury. there are 900,000 police officers. It's a safe job they chose to do.
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What the ****?

Where did I mention assaults? Where did I say it was so ****ing dangerous a job?

I specifically stated the greatest danger is dealing with mental health cases. I did not even ****ing imply that it is a dangerous job, policing is less dangerous than construction and mental health work.

Sigh my ass. Save your condescending bull**** for people who give a ****.
 
Fearandloathing said:
What the ****?

Where did I mention assaults? Where did I say it was so ****ing dangerous a job?

I specifically stated the greatest danger is dealing with mental health cases. I did not even ****ing imply that it is a dangerous job, policing is less dangerous than construction and mental health work.

Sigh my ass. Save your condescending bull**** for people who give a ****.
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How often do they deal with mental health cases that result in violence then? What percantage led to injury?


I *sigh* because I am tired of the propaganda that the police have it sooooo tough, they don't
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
How often do they deal with mental health cases that result in violence then? What percantage led to injury?


I *sigh* because I am tired of the propaganda that the police have it sooooo tough, they don't
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Repeat:

Deal with someone who gives a **** what you think.

we're done here.
 
cAPSLOCK said:
Well! If all you're going to do is point out fallacies then we MIGHT as well just NOT debate at all!!!

SO THERE!
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I responded to this, then I read it for the sarcasm that (I hope) it is...
 
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