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Thread: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

  1. #111
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    Re: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Right I don't think anyone denies being a cop has it's share of dangers.
    Reinoe: "Police work isn't that dangerous" (Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway))



    My bet would be that there is a wide disparity in relative danger. Being a cop in Mayberry probably involves less danger than being an ice-cream salesman. Being a cop in LA, probably not so much. That's another reason why the good Reverend's insistence on national statistics is somewhat problematic - he's attempting to argue for average situations when cops are responding to local conditions.


    And statistically it's not as dangerous as...

    Drinking the blood of AIDS patients
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    My own personal issue is that when a cop messes up they're not held responsible. Making a cop responsible for their screw up takes a Herculean effort. Some people just don't like cops, I'm not actually one of them, despite what my posting history might imply. As a libertarian I want government agents held to a standard. Throwing destroying private property and insisting that their actions in public should not be recorded makes me all the more suspicious of them.
    I would concur with all of that.
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  2. #112
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    Re: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    That solution seems to be awfully cumbersome on at least two counts.

    1) We could choose to only record the actions of only some government employees.
    For example
    We could instead use some sort of cost/benefit analysis to determine which government employees are worth the trouble of recording.
    Certainly with many government employees we already have a sufficient "paper trail" in the logs of their computer usage and what-have-you. For many other government employees the probability of their actions ever being worth the effort of viewing may be essentially nil.

    We could just take a vote at the relevant levels of govt as to which employees we'd like to have recorded.
    A community could have any number of reasons for wanting to have some government employees recorded that do not apply to all government employees.

    We are not restricted to recording ALL government employees.
    Recording all government employees is one of the things which makes your proposed solution seem impractical, inefficient, and inordinate.

    2) Additionally, shipping the jillions of video logs around would be a great waste of effort and bandwidth.
    It would be better to handle the records just as we currently handle video and other records--store them and let them be accessed as necessary.
    CNN doesn't really want forty hours a week of officer Bob filling out paperwork, attending meetings, writing traffic tickets, etc.
    No one else really does either.
    All that's wanted is man-bite-dog stuff.

    The solution you propose is both unnecessary and unwanted.
    We should probably go with a system where the recordings of some government employees were merely stored and available for review as ReverendHellh0und suggested up thread.

    Ftr, I think this is already how the recording of government employees is handled, fwiw.


    To be fair, they made a few reality tv shows about jackasses getting arrested. I do not blame you one bit for seldom seeing the shows though.
    Only watched 'em when my kin were in 'em. ; )

    Crooks being regular jackasses about getting arrested is kind of dog-bites-man territory.


    You may be relieved to find out that neither Johnny nor Jill have any such protection or power (with the possible exception of some minors).
    Bodycam footage as well as dashcam footage and any other regular surveillance footage is covered under the FOIA just like any other record.


    Obviously, your mileage may vary from the reasonable opinions expressed above.
    Firstly - it's not my solution or claim. I was referencing another poster who claimed that all government employees who deal with the public are routinely taped during their work day. I called bull**** on that claim.

    Secondly - any government originating taping of police interaction with a suspect who is charged will not readily be made available to the media - it will be subject to court proceedings and will also be subject to privacy legislation.

    My original point, and basically my only point here, is that nobody in their right mind would voluntarily train for and apply for a position as a police officer in today's political/social climate. The constant scrutiny and second guessing is just not worth the aggravation.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    I'm not convinced we can dismiss this one under the guise of network news motivations.

    I get that in the course of police action one cannot interfere, but at a reasonable distance while *out in public* the Police have no expectation of privacy where they can demand to not be filmed. At the same time what the officer did do was destruction of private property and
    arguably assault (the effort to grab the phone, again... arguably.)

    I do not think as a society we can tolerate officers who look at their activity as being above the law.
    That was assault. There is no “arguably” about it. Robbery as well. The use of physical force to deprive a person of her rightful property.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I can think of a couple of possible reasons why photography could be a threat. For example, if we caught you repeatedly filming how we moved through a city overseas, we knew that you were collecting against us for TTP purposes, and so not only did we take your camera, we took you and let you sit down with an interrogator and explain yourself. Additionally, there is such a thing as LE Sensitive Information, which does need to be protected.

    The 10 second clip absolutely looks like he's in the wrong. My point is simply that we don't have all the relevant data, some of which may radically change how we view this situation. That is why I also point out that at this point, most of America was convinced that the guy in Ferguson was in the Hands Up Don't Shoot position, whereas now we know that those witnesses were lying.

    Lying because they were mad that a cop shot a guy who was (apparently, the evidence says) in the act of violently assaulting him, having just committed a violent crime to which the officer was responding. Because there is a subset of our populace to whom cops are always in the wrong, and de facto The Enemy. And they will jump on or - in some cases - exaggerate to the point of fabrication any story that feeds that narrative.
    While I agree that the lady may have very well broken the law with her filming as there is no way to tell from the short video. But let's just say for the sake of the argument that she did break some law. What right did that cop have to be judge and jury and come up with the punishment of destroying her personal property. That is my problem with this. I have never seen or heard of a law that gives cops that authority. And if there is not a law that grants him that then he should face the same penalties as if joe citizen broke did that to Jane citizen. I also believe that due to the authority given law officers and the fact that he has shown he does not respect that authority he should lose his job. With authority comes responsibility.

  5. #115
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    Re: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The Ferguson example hinged on limited information that became immediately available. So does this one. I agree that it looks like it was wrong and abusive of the cop, I just also can imagine mitigating circumstances, and think we should wait to see if those are correct before we try to shoehorn this into some kind of national narrative about police.
    If there are mitigating circumstances... and there could be, but I'm doubtful... it's going to be a steep road to climb to justify it.
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  6. #116
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    Re: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

    And I stand by what I said too. Police work just isn't that dangerous. Their rhetoric just doesn't line up with the statistics.

  7. #117
    u mad, snowflake?
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    Re: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is incorrect. I made an analogous claim that you are trying to pretend was a statistical one because it allows you to not have to answer the analogous point.



    I said no such thing. I demand you link where I gave that number or your entire argument is dismissed.




    I think I rather know my own mind, bro.


    How is it analogous? It's not even that.


    You tried to make the job sound far more dangeous than reality.


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  8. #118
    u mad, snowflake?
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    Re: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You can do whatever you want. But if you claim that being a Walmart greeter is more dangerous than being a police officer, I'll just laugh at your idiocy.


    I never claimed this, what i was pointing out is statistically police work isnt dangerous. So any (idiocy) is all you, should any exist.


    Matthew 10:34
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  9. #119
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    Re: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't have a simply answer for you. The answer is found in how you find a way for ordinary citizens to start respecting public institutions once again. If citizens don't respect those who work on their behalf, then you're not going to change how they view citizens.
    That street runs both ways. It's a mistake to assume that any distrust and lack of respect between police and the community is caused by a few videos. They don't resonate with a public that otherwise has good relationships with their local police. They DO resonate and provoke backlash when those videos confirm what people already know from their own interactions with police. And I'm self aware enough that I know my own interactions as a professional white person living in the prosperous suburbs and only interacting with the police in fairly innocuous circumstances like at a ball game that my experiences are probably entirely different in kind and substance from those who live in the inner cities, and who are poor and often minority, and who are often presumed guilty, while I'm virtually always assumed to be innocent.

    I've never had a single problem with a police officer and I've had several interactions with them both when working and in my personal life. They've always returned my respect with respect. If they ask me a question, I don't immediately get all butt hurt about my rights supposedly being abused or whip out my cellphone to video the discussion. Maybe the entitlement society is finally hitting the wall.
    Same here for the most part, and I think police like everyone else - clerks, waiters, garbage men, etc. - should be treated with common courtesy. It's how civil society is expected to operate, police or not. But the police aren't in fact entitled to courtesy or respect as a condition for not mistreating those they serve. If some guy comes up to you and "disrespects" you, and you take his phone and smash it on the ground, you get arrested and maybe go to jail overnight.

    Simple solution - how about if everyone obeys the law and everyone chills.
    That's why when people who ARE obeying the law, like this woman, have their property destroyed by those paid to enforce the law, it's entirely appropriate to criticize the police for it and hold them accountable - enforce negative consequences - for breaking the laws they're sworn to uphold.

  10. #120
    u mad, snowflake?
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    Re: Cop snatches phone and smashes it (gets caught on video anyway)

    The whole notion the people must cater to the police is absurd.

    We dont work for them.


    Matthew 10:34
    Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

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