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Thread: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

  1. #21
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    Re: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well that can be debated since all of the African countries involved are former colonies who were left to fend for themselves by their masters and have never really recovered from that.
    Name one that was any better off before they were colonized or worse off after they were. And they should be fending for themselves if they want to have their own nations.

    What they've never recovered from is their own demise at their own hands. Many of these nations once had advanced civilizations but had long ago passed that phase and descended into a more primitive phase. That's not the fault of any EU nation.

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    Re: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Clearly not, since you blame the EU for everything. Details matter, especially in this case if people are to learn why those poor people have died.



    No again, you use the "blame EU". Who organized it that way? Oh the majority in Northern Europe, not the freaking EU. In fact the EU, aka the EU commission has been for decades pushing for changes and voicing its concern, but the Northern Europe countries, with the UK and Germany in front have refused to do anything.



    The Euro has absolutely nothing to do with the situation nor the recession. Your problem with the EU yet again shows its ugly face.



    Yes it is an European problem and it is VERY EASY to identify which members are the problem, if the media were not blind and dumb on the situation.. which they are. The problem is a lack of co-ordination due to the lack of political will from Germany and the UK, with the rest of Northern Europe following behind. France use to be part of the gang, but has the last half decade pushed for more coordination.. which is why they are not "doing much" at the Calais border, since the UK refuses to do anything.
    Nobody says that the EU does not have members as do Euroland and Schengenland with a mess of overlapping and sometimes contradictory responsibilities of the various memberships. That does not mean that you can point at a country that refused to join Schengenland for not paying for problems that to a good extent result from that treaty. It is the messed up and arrogantly dilettante wEuropean countries organized the continent that makes one and all members responsible. So yes. It is the EU (and its members).
    And again, you are wrong that the Euro induced recession is not responsible for the stagnating economies' leading to even worse fiscal positions in a number of countries like Italy and Greece who have been forced to cut spending on many things. One of these things has been the Schengenland boarders.

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    Re: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    LOL the French were not the "major instigators", the US was and always has been thanks to the bull**** "Arab spring" push by Bush Jr.
    So you're saying Dubya caused millions of Arabs throughout the Middle East to rise up against their oppressors? Wouldn't they have to regard him as some sort of prophet or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    In fact the Italians and French warned about getting involved but when Gaddafi threatened to slaughter a whole city, then something had to be done and they were convinced. It was NATO who bombed, but NATO does nothing without the approval of the White House (not to mention NATO is fully dependent on US logistics and command and control).
    If that's true, then why was the French foreign minister publicly pleading for intervention by the U.S. and other major powers? You're drinking the Kool-Aid again, Pete.

    France pleads for military intervention as Gaddafi forces attack Libyan rebels - The Washington Post
    Нава́льный 2018

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    Re: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    LOL the French were not the "major instigators", the US was and always has been thanks to the bull**** "Arab spring" push by Bush Jr.
    The Arab Spring was in 2011...
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    And isn't that minister correct? Wouldn't it indeed encourage more to come?
    Talk about cynical. He's basically saying let them drown so as to serve as a warning. And, considering that the numbers of these migrants are rising and we've just witnessed one of the worst maritime disasters since WWII, that strategy doesn't seem to be working too well.
    Нава́льный 2018

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    Re: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The Arab Spring was in 2011...
    The seeds were set in 2003 when Bush wrongfully invaded Iraq.
    PeteEU

  7. #27
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    Re: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    So you're saying Dubya caused millions of Arabs throughout the Middle East to rise up against their oppressors? Wouldn't they have to regard him as some sort of prophet or something?
    Er yes.. that was the Bush policy in the middle east.. or did you forget Iraq all of a sudden?

    If that's true, then why was the French foreign minister publicly pleading for intervention by the U.S. and other major powers? You're drinking the Kool-Aid again, Pete.

    France pleads for military intervention as Gaddafi forces attack Libyan rebels - The Washington Post
    Because of the threat to Bengahzi... Before that, countries did not care much.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Nobody says that the EU does not have members as do Euroland and Schengenland with a mess of overlapping and sometimes contradictory responsibilities of the various memberships. That does not mean that you can point at a country that refused to join Schengenland for not paying for problems that to a good extent result from that treaty. It is the messed up and arrogantly dilettante wEuropean countries organized the continent that makes one and all members responsible. So yes. It is the EU (and its members).
    For **** sake.. Schengen is INTERNAL! The EEC/EU has always had the policy of each country protects its external borders, but schengen removed internal border controls. This is an external border issue, or have you totally missed that?

    And again, you are wrong that the Euro induced recession is not responsible for the stagnating economies' leading to even worse fiscal positions in a number of countries like Italy and Greece who have been forced to cut spending on many things. One of these things has been the Schengenland boarders.
    LOL Euro induced recession.. HAHAHHA now that is hilarious... are you saying the crisis is because of the Euro and not because of the American sub-prime crash? SERIOUSLY?

    And Italy has always been at the front line and financing has never been an issue. Only Greece has been an issue, but they regardless of the crisis have kept up their commitment. Blaming the Euro is just utterly lame and false. That is like blaming the strong dollar for the influx of illegals into the US... makes absolutely no sense.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    For **** sake.. Schengen is INTERNAL! The EEC/EU has always had the policy of each country protects its external borders, but schengen removed internal border controls. This is an external border issue, or have you totally missed that?



    LOL Euro induced recession.. HAHAHHA now that is hilarious... are you saying the crisis is because of the Euro and not because of the American sub-prime crash? SERIOUSLY?

    And Italy has always been at the front line and financing has never been an issue. Only Greece has been an issue, but they regardless of the crisis have kept up their commitment. Blaming the Euro is just utterly lame and false. That is like blaming the strong dollar for the influx of illegals into the US... makes absolutely no sense.
    You really do not know very much about the functions of state or the EU, do you.
    To remind you od what Schengen was about, let me reproduce the main Issues it deals with:

    "Key rules adopted within the Schengen framework include:

    -removal of checks on persons at the internal borders;
    -a common set of rules applying to people crossing the external borders of the EU Member States;
    -harmonisation of the conditions of entry and of the rules on visas for short stays;
    -enhanced police cooperation (including rights of cross-border surveillance and hot pursuit);
    -stronger judicial cooperation through a faster extradition system and transfer of enforcement of criminal judgments;
    -establishment and development of the Schengen Information System (SIS)."

    It should be quite obvious to you, that such regulation does impact the actions of member countries concerning immigration from outside. That there are a number of further Regulations that do also and sometomes even more is true. But we are only touching the top layer of the Europeans' problems here anyway.

    That you do not understand the economics of foreign trade and currencies it a pity in this context as it puts you into directions by misunderstanding, what was said. Also it would help to notice, what was written. Nobody said the immigrants were coming because of the Euro. That was not the issue.

    The issue was that out of the weakened position of the economies on the South flank of Europe the societies are less able to justify the expenditures on maintaining orderly boarders and handle the numbers crowding towards the shores. It was a question of the funds available to deal with the problem that led to dismantling the Italian Mare Nostrum program as its costs went from an expected Euros 2 Million to 9,5 Millions a year. This was too expensive just to save the lives along the coasts. Didn't you follow the discussions about that? Now Frontex is running a program with quite a bit less emphasis on saving lives, as we have seen in the last few months. What is it? 1.000 drowned in the last three days? Frontex is an EU creature.

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    Re: Hundreds feared dead after migrant boat capsizes in Mediterranean Sea

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The seeds were set in 2003 when Bush wrongfully invaded Iraq.
    Wrongfully? Don't be silly. It was too expensive and the US was not willing to be harsh enough after deposing the dictator, but the thing was perfectly legitimate and even required after Saddam had pushed his refusal to submit to the Security Council too far. Why, even most European governments signed that letter supporting Bush's policy on Saddam.

    But you know that. And you know that the Intervention by Putin, Chirac and Schröder made the invasion much more likely of even necessary after a point.

    So don't go pointing fingers into puddings you wish were of different taste.

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